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Old 08-08-2013, 04:34 PM   #121
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Destroyed the CHL? He had 31 goals and 38 assists for 69 points in 42 games. He played at a 1.6 points per game clip. Monahan was at 1.3 pts/g clip on a far worse team (31g 47a for 78 pts in 58 games for the record).

I think saying he destroyed the CHL is a bit of a reach.
He had 53 freakin points(in 26gp) before his knee injury in the wjhc.
He was tearing it up
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:40 PM   #122
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He had 53 freakin points(in 26gp) before his knee injury in the wjhc.
He was tearing it up
So he had 16 points in the remaining 16 games. Did he just stop trying? Did teams catch on? By the sounds of it he scored the majority of his points in meaningless games

One of the most vivid memories I have of him is trying to skate single handily through 5 canadian players numerous times. I just am not a fan, sorry.
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:40 PM   #123
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Hall is by far the best the Oilers have to offer. I believe the jury is still out. Until that kid learns to skate with his head up I will not consider him a top anything. As I said, he had a good half season after having a very mediocre 2nd. He has to prove he can play a full season at the same level displayed last season before he proclaimed anything of note. That would be the expectation you would hold for Flames players so I have no idea why you hold Oilers players to a different standard.
I dont think Hall got tagged in his third year. Remember he also played in the AHL, and while the competition is less than the NHL, he did produce playing against pros and men. I expect Monahan to be a bonafide 2 way player in the NHL, but till he does that in the NHL, its disingenuous at best to be comparing him to players that have already succeeded in the NHL.

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Nugent-Hopkins had a great rookie year. Then the rest of league caught on to him and the way he plays and he got crushed. Not surprised, it happens a lot. The Nuge is going to have to prove he can withstand the rigors of the NHL game and he can survive playing with men. He's never been an overly slippery player, so it will be interesting to see if he survives. It will also be interesting to see if he recovers from his injuries and if he can produce to the level expected of a number one pick. While you say there is a lot to be optimistic about, he does have to prove that optimism is correct. Coming soon, this fall?
You do realize that Nuge got his injury from smashing into the boards. I am assuming you implied that he got crushed from a hit another player had on him. Say that he is weak that his body cant hold up to the NHL grind, but to say that he got crushed is once again disingenuous. Here is a report stating that his on ice awareness is off the charts, which I choose to interpret that he can use it to be elusive:http://espn.go.com/blog/dallasstars/...gent-hopkins-2


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You can complain all you want about the treatment Yakupov gets but he deserves it. The kid is a punk and not a good hockey player at this point. Yeah, he can put a puck in the net, but can he play the other 185 feet of the ice? So far I think the answer is no. I'd rather Yakupov was on the Oilers than my team, especially on game nights. While you build him up like he's the next Ovechkin I see him more of the next Kovalchuk. As Atlanta or New Jersey fans how they liked him. Even when he was scoring he was a tough player to cheer for. When he wasn't scoring they hated him. Yakupov is that type of player. Don't like those type of players and never will. He may still change his ways, but he has to prove he is not another Kovalchuk and is a complete player.
Wow, I dont think anyone would say no to a Kovalchuk calibre player on their team. How about I ask my Oiler fans friends what they think about Yak... oh wait a sec, they love that guy and his "celebrations". I think there are very few oilers fans that dislike the guy. But then again, he could bolt to the KHL, but then again so could Nichushkin.

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What I do find funny is that if these guys were all Flames players you would be going out of your way to pick them apart and convince everyone how bad they are or what an uphill battle they have to ever succeed in the NHL. But they are Oilers and you can piss people off by defending them, so you choose to do so. I wish you put as much work into supporting our players as you do in supporting players from other teams or tearing ours down. It would make threads much more enjoyable and less frustrating.
Heck, I would find it hard to defend flames prospects especially considering they've not played an NHL game yet. I am optimistic that our picks will play well, but to bring down other teams and sometimes fabricate faults... not cool.
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:44 PM   #124
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So he had 16 points in the remaining 16 games. Did he just stop trying? Did teams catch on? By the sounds of it he scored the majority of his points in meaningless games

One of the most vivid memories I have of him is trying to skate single handily through 5 canadian players numerous times. I just am not a fan, sorry.
So the meaningless games are at the beginning of the season AND at the end of the season.

Thanks for clearing that up.
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:46 PM   #125
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One of the problems with the Nuge is he is taking a bit to long to fill out. listed at 6'1" and 185 lbs seems a bit generous when you see him. Sam Gagner has 15lbs on him.
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:47 PM   #126
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RNH and Hall are easily better players than Yakupov. He could go out and score 50 goals, and I'd still think those two are better. Point is he plays an individual's game, and his game is entirely one-dimensional. The other two seem to both more developed in and receptive to learning a playing style that helps the team.

His goal celebrations are a whole other mess, though.
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:48 PM   #127
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So the meaningless games are at the beginning of the season AND at the end of the season.

Thanks for clearing that up.
I thought the wink would have been enough to let you know I was joking but if that is what you take out of it by all means.
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:56 PM   #128
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I see a lot of russian stereotypes when describing Nail... and not a lot of people who sound like they have actually watched him. The kid is physical and takes no ####. He looked lost defensively at the start of the season.. but came around nicely at the end. (no not the last 2 games)
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:07 PM   #129
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I see a lot of russian stereotypes when describing Nail... and not a lot of people who sound like they have actually watched him. The kid is physical and takes no ####. He looked lost defensively at the start of the season.. but came around nicely at the end. (no not the last 2 games)
Haha, I actually agree with that. I wonder what perceptions would be if he was say Neil Yakchuk from Shaunavon, SK.

The sooner the Oilers get him to the east, the better... hate to face that guy.
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:14 PM   #130
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Heck, I would find it hard to defend flames prospects especially considering they've not played an NHL game yet. I am optimistic that our picks will play well, but to bring down other teams and sometimes fabricate faults... not cool.
Fabricate stuff? I just said what was repeated numerous times on broadcasts around the country. Do you know what's not cool? Pretending to be a fan of one team on their message board while really being a fan of another. Your posting history is as transparent as the defense you posted above.

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Old 08-08-2013, 05:19 PM   #131
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Fabricate stuff? I just said what was repeated numerous times on broadcasts around the country. Do you know what's not cool? Pretending to be a fan of one team on their message board while really being a fan of another. Your posting history is as transparent as the defense you posted above.

Another baseless swipe.

You realize you can be critical of the team or, gasp, even give rivals credit while still being a fan?

If you can't handle that I suggest your toss yourself onto the great group-think pyre that much of this board has become.
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:22 PM   #132
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IMO the Oilers acknowledged the need to rebuild in the 2010 season following Dany Heatley's refusal to waive his no trade clause in the proposed player exchange from Ottawa. Edmonton then realised they needed to grow their own star players rather than trying and failing to acquire them through the UFA market place. Heatley's actions were a blessing in disguise for the Oiler organization as it forced their hand to rethink what they had been trying to do. As far as the Flames rebuild, I had suggested on CP the Flames consider trading Iginla in 2010 as they were showing signs of being a post apex club then and could have jump-started a rebuild by getting an excellent return for Jarome at that time.
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:34 PM   #133
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Fabricate stuff? I just said what was repeated numerous times on broadcasts around the country. Do you know what's not cool? Pretending to be a fan of one team on their message board while really being a fan of another. Your posting history is as transparent as the defense you posted above.

Oh wow, you got me.

I am weary about tossing stones in a glass house. When the flames were dominating the oilers, i took quiet glee. When they didnt let the oilers score even one win in the 2009-2010 season, it was delicious. But I have to say, there are a lot of similar things being said about this flames team that were being said about those horribad oilers teams. And I admit, this turn around is pretty much what draws me to threads that pretty much exist to trash the oilers and my posting history probably shows as such.

I really do fear that the tables are being turned. The flames look to have better depth, but the oilers have better top end (thus far). Will Monahan be as good as one of Hall, Hopkins or Yakupov? I dont know, I sure as hell hope so though. It would absolutely suck if the flames ended up being like the blues, a whole bunch of very good two way and character players, but no one with the game breaking ability of a Kopitar, Toews, Kane, etc.
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:36 PM   #134
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Another baseless swipe.

You realize you can be critical of the team or, gasp, even give rivals credit while still being a fan?

If you can't handle that I suggest your toss yourself onto the great group-think pyre that much of this board has become.
Not baseless at all. Take a look at his posting history and tell me you don't see an obvious trend.

I give credit to rivals when they deserve it, not just to piss of this board. Your bloviation of the Oilers is embarrassing. You claim they filled holes, but didn't exactly say where. I pointed out the additions and deflections, showing they could actually be worse this year, and nothing from you. Color me unsurprised. Them Oilers sure are building something special up there! A team that has an average size up front of under 6' and 190 pounds. A team that has a blue line average size under 6'2 and 195 pounds. 8 players under 190 pounds. 14 under 200 pounds. They are going to get run over. But that's not an issue, right? Not worthy of thinking or discussing, right?
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:53 PM   #135
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Not baseless at all. Take a look at his posting history and tell me you don't see an obvious trend.

I give credit to rivals when they deserve it, not just to piss of this board. Your bloviation of the Oilers is embarrassing. You claim they filled holes, but didn't exactly say where. I pointed out the additions and deflections, showing they could actually be worse this year, and nothing from you. Color me unsurprised. Them Oilers sure are building something special up there! A team that has an average size up front of under 6' and 190 pounds. A team that has a blue line average size under 6'2 and 195 pounds. 8 players under 190 pounds. 14 under 200 pounds. They are going to get run over. But that's not an issue, right? Not worthy of thinking or discussing, right?
You're starting to skid off the rails.

I said specifically the Oilers brought in character and depth. I fail to see how your point refuted that.

I'm defending their top prospects to make my point that the Flames will have to have better depth to match the Oilers talent. Ooh so controversial, what a bloviation on my part.

You've now interpretted that as I've bought into the Oiler hype and am not a fan simply here to cause a stir. I never once said how I thought they'd do this season or the like. You've made a huge assumption based on my one comment that gave the Oilers some credit. Later in the post I made I said that the Flames were probably better positioned.

This whole series of posts from you looks bad.
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:40 PM   #136
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Any reason you feel that way? Have you watched Nichushkin play?

Anyways, i suppose its a bit of a moot point considering Nichushkin has yet to play in the NHL.
I was not comparing Yakupov now to Nichushkin. I was comparing Yakupov at the time of his draft to Nichushkin at his draft (a fair comparison).

The discussion was about where Yak would have gone in this year's draft. While Yak has more pure skill and talent, I still think Nich would have been favored between the two.

But regardless, hockey isn't a contest of who has the most talent, it is a team game. And there is no question for me, that I would rather have Nich on my team than Yak. (which illustrates where I think Yak would/should have gone this year)

Re the bold: seriously? If you want to discuss, great. But if you're going to go with 'have you watched him play' then stick to he Oilers board.
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:19 PM   #137
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I said specifically the Oilers brought in character and depth. I fail to see how your point refuted that.
Where is this improved depth and character? I pointed out that there were losses to go with their additions and the losses look like they could easily balance or out weigh the additions. Their major weaknesses were not addressed in any shape or form, but you completely ignored that, repeating your claim they improved their depth and character without backing it up in any way.

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I'm defending their top prospects to make my point that the Flames will have to have better depth to match the Oilers talent. Ooh so controversial, what a bloviation on my part.
No, you said "the Oilers likely have the better top end prospect depth than the Flames will accumulate over the next three years." You've looked into your crystal ball and have already decided that it does not matter who the Flames draft in the next three years that the Oilers will have better top end prospect depth.

That is down right hilarious when you consider that McDavid is being considered a generational talent. He alone would be better than any two of the Oilers top prospects. That also does not take into consideration Reinhart, Nylander or Ekblad in next year's draft. Who knows what will be available in 2015? Those kids are still in midget or bantam? We don't even know what the depth of that draft may look like. But we do know, based on your projections, that whatever player the Flames select will not be as good as any of the Oilers top prospects.

You talk about looking bad? You've already passed judgment on players that the Flames haven't even drafted and deemed them substandard compared to the Oilers prospects. That is unbelievably shortsighted and arrogant to even suggest that, especially when those Oilers prospects haven't proven anything to date.
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:04 PM   #138
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I think the Oilers are getting too much credit from people on when they "needed" to start their rebuild.

People look at 2006/07 as the start of their problems but it was before then. In 2005/06 they may have reached the finals but they were barely an 8th place team in the west. In 2003/04 they missed the playoffs, In 2002/03 they got in as the 8th seed and in 2001/02 they missed the playoffs.

So really in the 4 years prior to when people say they should have been rebuilding they were no more than a borderline playoff team, just like he Flames were for the 3 years before this season. The 2012/13 Flames are more in line with the 2006/07 Oilers.
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:06 PM   #139
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That is down right hilarious when you consider that McDavid is being considered a generational talent. He alone would be better than any two of the Oilers top prospects. That also does not take into consideration Reinhart, Nylander or Ekblad in next year's draft. Who knows what will be available in 2015? Those kids are still in midget or bantam? We don't even know what the depth of that draft may look like. But we do know, based on your projections, that whatever player the Flames select will not be as good as any of the Oilers top prospects.

You talk about looking bad? You've already passed judgment on players that the Flames haven't even drafted and deemed them substandard compared to the Oilers prospects. That is unbelievably shortsighted and arrogant to even suggest that, especially when those Oilers prospects haven't proven anything to date.
McDavid could be a Colorado prospect. Or a Phoenix one. Or, for that matter, if, this thread is right, and Edmonton one.

You appear to be projecting based on what you believe the Flames will finish the next couple of years. First overall for the next two?

If so, you might want to take a look at the Oilers over the last couple of years:

Sorted by points per game (with defensemen and goalies removed, first year in the NHL):

2004 Alex Ovechkin
2005 Sidney Crosby
2007 Patrick Kane
2011 Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
2001 Ilya Kovalchuk
2009 John Tavares
2010 Taylor Hall
2012 Nail Yakupov

2008 Steven Stamkos
2002 Rick Nash
2006 Jordan Staal
2003 Eric Staal

and by goals per game:

2004 Alex Ovechkin
2005 Sidney Crosby
2001 Ilya Kovalchuk
2006 Jordan Staal
2012 Nail Yakupov
2010 Taylor Hall

2009 John Tavares
2008 Steven Stamkos
2011 Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
2007 Patrick Kane
2002 Rick Nash
2003 Eric Staal

Do you expect Calgary to draft #1 overall for the next couple of years? If so, where do you expect the players drafted to place compared to Ovechkin, Crosby, and Staal?
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:25 PM   #140
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I think the Oilers are getting too much credit from people on when they "needed" to start their rebuild.

People look at 2006/07 as the start of their problems but it was before then. In 2005/06 they may have reached the finals but they were barely an 8th place team in the west. In 2003/04 they missed the playoffs, In 2002/03 they got in as the 8th seed and in 2001/02 they missed the playoffs.

So really in the 4 years prior to when people say they should have been rebuilding they were no more than a borderline playoff team, just like he Flames were for the 3 years before this season. The 2012/13 Flames are more in line with the 2006/07 Oilers.
It would be shockingly forward thinking for any team, one year removed from the Stanley Cup finals, to have people within the organization stand back and be able to say "You know what, that cup run was a fluke. This team is deeply flawed and needs to be sold off now while values are still high"

The Flyers did that to a certain degree with their 2010 team. I would certainly give them credit for not just assuming their team was going to stay great, instead moving high priced guys out for very good young players.
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