THW opinion on the 2013-2014 Flames

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I don't think it's possible to adaquately demonstrate that in a 9 game sample size to say nothing of being extremely unlikely (particularily when he'd probably be playing limited minutes in a depth role). Besides what good would those 25G & 50P do the Flames? It wouldn't put them into the playoff picture.

If he looks like a 25g and 50pts guy then obviously his development is better served in the NHL. Just putting him in the juniors to save a year on his contract would be wasteful to his career.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Fire

If he looks like a 25g and 50pts guy then obviously his development is better served in the NHL. Just putting him in the juniors to save a year on his contract would be wasteful to his career.

We're going in circles here. There is no way to tell, from a 9-game sample of a player who has never been in the NHL before, that he can score 25 goals or 50 points over a full season. And I, at any rate, specifically said my reasons had nothing to do with his contract. I believe his development would be best served by letting him compete for something meaningful: a chance he won't get with either the Flames or 67's this season. Let him go to a contender in the OHL.

[herashak]

Why does monahans contract have to become expensive after his elc? Look at Couturiers bridge contract. players dont usually get their payday right after their elcs

[Mister Yamoto]

Also is this the group that you would want a blue chip prospect breaking into the NHL with?
I think the Flames need to fix the room first. If you look at the core of the young guns era Flames I think Bure, Fleury, Housley and those guys taught the young players that NHL life can be taken for granted and losing is acceptable.

[Ashasx]

I'd say Couturier has disappointed somewhat. He did not have a good season after the lockout.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

Also is this the group that you would want a blue chip prospect breaking into the NHL with?
I think the Flames need to fix the room first. If you look at the core of the young guns era Flames I think Bure, Fleury, Housley and those guys taught the young players that NHL life can be taken for granted and losing is acceptable.

While it would be pretty nice to have an Anze Kopitar, Dustin Brown and Jarret Stoll helping the rookies along as they take the brunt of the work, fact is that the change that this roster will experience will come from within because the rookies are breaking in.
The Flames management have done a pretty solid job of moving the 'country club' that most people were unhappy with.

With the veterans left in the room, you've got players like Stajan and Stempniak who have shown themselves to work hard regardless. Glencross and Cammy are potential question marks as in whether they're net positive or negative influences. Gio needs to sort his own stuff before worrying anybody else.

There's not really much else to 'fix' because realistically you'll only move bodies in and out without really changing anything.

[herashak]

Couturier is still one of the top young players in the nhl. if monahan exceeds expectations he wont be much better than cout

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

Also is this the group that you would want a blue chip prospect breaking into the NHL with?
I think the Flames need to fix the room first. If you look at the core of the young guns era Flames I think Bure, Fleury, Housley and those guys taught the young players that NHL life can be taken for granted and losing is acceptable.

Fleury was all about winning and giving it all on the ice.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Anduril

The Flames management have done a pretty solid job of moving the 'country club' that most people were unhappy with.

So, which players do you think had the country club attitude?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by herashak

Couturier is still one of the top young players in the nhl. if monahan exceeds expectations he wont be much better than cout

Couturier still has plenty of potential and may well become a top player.

However, his NHL performance during his ELC was less than spectacular. Thus the mediocre 2nd contract.

Young players that have performed well in their ELCs have been getting much larger contracts than Couturier received.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by theoforever

So, which players do you think had the country club attitude?

Tanguay, Bouwmeester (not so much the country club attitude but rather the lack of 'passion' and 'hunger') and at times, Iginla.

It's funny though, I think a player like Iginla would be ideal for the current Flames. Not just because of organizational need or the past connection. Instead, to have a model and professional who knows the game and has had the pressure of carrying an entire organization himself for years.

[Freeway]

Bouwmeester was a very quiet leader. Very cerebral. Has great answers to questions, but he's a quiet guy. Giordano's most likely the vocal leader in the locker room based on what I've seen and been told.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

We're going in circles here. There is no way to tell, from a 9-game sample of a player who has never been in the NHL before, that he can score 25 goals or 50 points over a full season. And I, at any rate, specifically said my reasons had nothing to do with his contract. I believe his development would be best served by letting him compete for something meaningful: a chance he won't get with either the Flames or 67's this season. Let him go to a contender in the OHL.

I disagree. 9 games + exhibition is plenty of time to see if he's ready for a top 6 role on the team. Saying his development would be best served in the OHL before training camp even starts is way too premature.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Cammalleri can be a 1st liner. His near 40 goals one year shows that. Of course he hasn't been on the same form recently.

David Jones not in consideration for a top two line role? I think thats a bit of an oversight. I think he's far more likely to play top two line minutes than Galiardi. He's a 20 goal scorer when he's on. Horak could end up as a top two liner at some point as well, I view similarly to Knight.

Brodie I think will cement himself as a top pairing guy this year.

[Sylvanfan]

Realistically if all three first liners scored 25 goals all 3 second liners scored 19, 12 from each guy on the third line, 20 from a 4th line, and 40 from the defence you have 230 goals. 2.8 goals per game last year would rank 8th in the league.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Cammalleri can be a 1st liner. His near 40 goals one year shows that. Of course he hasn't been on the same form recently.

David Jones not in consideration for a top two line role? I think thats a bit of an oversight. I think he's far more likely to play top two line minutes than Galiardi. He's a 20 goal scorer when he's on. Horak could end up as a top two liner at some point as well, I view similarly to Knight.

Brodie I think will cement himself as a top pairing guy this year.

Agree on Brodie, he acquitted himself well.

Thing that people gloss over is that for years Iggy drew extra coverage, for good reason, and guys like Cammalleri benefited from that. It is every man for himself now

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Realistically if all three first liners scored 25 goals all 3 second liners scored 19, 12 from each guy on the third line, 20 from a 4th line, and 40 from the defence you have 230 goals. 2.8 goals per game last year would rank 8th in the league.

Its possible I guess.

I think you are close on your forward projections. Of the returning forwards we have two guys that were near a 25 goal pace last season (Glencross/Cammalleri), two near at 19-goal pace (Backlund and Hudler), and two in the 12 goal range (Baertschi and Stempniak). We have added a few guys, have a few young players a year further along, and are opening up PP and EV ice time with the departure of Tanguay and Iginla.

I think you are going to be hard pressed to get 40 goals from your D though. We put up a respectable 34 goal pace last season but we are lost Bouwmeester and he has the highest goals per game on our D. I think the last time we got 40 goals from our D was back in 06/07 and Phaneuf got 17 of them. Usually the Flames get 25 or 30 goals from the D.

I also think you are expecting a bit much from the fourth line. 10 is more realistic.

I expect the Flames to be around 210 to 220 goals for. Less if they offload Stempniak/Cammalleri during the season. That keeps them middle of the road.

Unfortunately I think they will be in the 240 to 250 range for goals against. But that is another topic!

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Fire

I disagree. 9 games + exhibition is plenty of time to see if he's ready for a top 6 role on the team.

You're moving the goalposts. Top-6 forward ≠ 25-25-50 player, especially on this team.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Stajan is gone after this year anyway, regardless of how he plays. We should be looking to trade him for anything we can get. He's not part of the plan going forward.

All the more reason to bring Monahan in now and ease him into the role instead of waiting for Stajan to be traded or have his contract expire. I appreciate that Monahan could develop a lot in the OHL but if the 67s do not trade him then it would be a waste of his time.

I believe it would also work out really well to bring Monahan onto the Flames roster this year (if he shows he can handle it) and play him as a 2/3 center with sheltered minutes. If Stajan is traded mid-season, it would be the signal that Monahan is ready for more minutes.

If Monahan doesn't make the team, at the trade deadline we could end up with Backlund, Knight, Bouma and B.Jones as our centers for the end of the season. I would much rather have Monahan on that list.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Wolven

All the more reason to bring Monahan in now and ease him into the role instead of waiting for Stajan to be traded or have his contract expire. I appreciate that Monahan could develop a lot in the OHL but if the 67s do not trade him then it would be a waste of his time.

I believe it would also work out really well to bring Monahan onto the Flames roster this year (if he shows he can handle it) and play him as a 2/3 center with sheltered minutes. If Stajan is traded mid-season, it would be the signal that Monahan is ready for more minutes.

If Monahan doesn't make the team, at the trade deadline we could end up with Backlund, Knight, Bouma and B.Jones as our centers for the end of the season. I would much rather have Monahan on that list.

People talk like he won't develop with the 67s. Well he has developed just fine to this point with the 67s. It is an option.

The decision to keep Monahan in the NHL will depend on how he does in camp, in the preseason, and during his 9-game NHL audition. Nobody should be speaking with any certainty today on whether we should keep him or not.