Should players, sports organizations, or the whole COC boycott the Sochi Olympics?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

So a hosting nation basically bans homosexuality so we boycott them. A nation that bans Jewish athletes we wouldn't boycott? Or an athlete that refuses to play against Jewish people?

Obviously we wouldn't have to, but we would look like fools if we didn't.

I'm all for boycotting any competition in some backwards ####hole that "bans Jewish athletes", but is this a real thing? Like is it a concern? A place like Iran or Saudi Arabia (or wherever) that would try to pull such a stunt is never getting an event like the Olympics or the world cup (or whatever).

I don't know how you would "boycott" an individual athlete who refused to compete agains Jewish people. Wouldn't he essentially be banning himself from any big event being held?

Anyway, I'm not in favor of boycotting the Olympics based on this crazy law that was designed to placate the dumbest and drunkest Russians, but I don't think it would even be a question to stay out of an event in a country that wouldn't allow Jews to compete.

[Fusebox]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I'm all for boycotting any competition in some backwards ####hole that "bans Jewish athletes", but is this a real thing? Like is it a concern? A place like Iran or Saudi Arabia (or wherever) that would try to pull such a stunt is never getting an event like the Olympics or the world cup (or whatever).

I don't know how you would "boycott" an individual athlete who refused to compete agains Jewish people. Wouldn't he essentially be banning himself from any big event being held?

Anyway, I'm not in favor of boycotting the Olympics based on this crazy law that was designed to placate the dumbest and drunkest Russians, but I don't think it would even be a question to stay out of an event in a country that wouldn't allow Jews to compete.

Russia is due to host the World Cup in 2018 and then Qatar in 2022. Homosexuality is a crime punishable by death in Qatar.

I won't be watching any of the Olympics in Russia and I will let any an every sponsor of the Olympics and Olympic coverage here in Canada that I will not be buying any of their products if I can avoid doing so due to Russia's stance on homosexuality.

It is all well and good to say that it is their country and they can set their own rules, but if they were actively discriminating against black or Jewish people there would be a far greater outcry.

Twenty years from now, this won't even be a discussion, such are the changing views amongst young people in the world today. I am 29 years old and I don't know a single person under thirty in my circle of friends who thinks that they have the right to judge someone else for the sexuality. Twenty years from now, we'll all be fifty and all of those dinosaurs that hate gay people will be dropping dead bit by bit.

I am incredibly proud to call myself a citizen of Canada for many reasons, not the least of which is the fact that we were one of the very first countries in the entire world to legalize gay marriage. Canada is a country with an extremely checkered past when it comes to slavery (yes, slavery, even though you'll never learn about Montreal being the biggest slave market in the entire continent for over one hundred years in grade school history class) and extreme discrimination when it comes to Native rights, as we are all aware or should be aware. Thankfully, we have taken steps as a country to show that we are leaders in the world when it comes to human rights. Let's hope that enough people climb on board and let the world know that we won't stand for Russia's discriminate stance against homosexuals.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by fotze

The best vodkas are Canadian anyways.

fyp.

[Fusebox]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

So a hosting nation basically bans homosexuality so we boycott them. A nation that bans Jewish athletes we wouldn't boycott? Or an athlete that refuses to play against Jewish people?

Obviously we wouldn't have to, but we would look like fools if we didn't.

There is a huge difference. Homosexual athletes aren't being "banned" from the Olympics. Homosexual athletes, and homosexual tourists, I might add, are being threatened with jail time simply for engaging in homosexual behavior in the privacy of their own hotel rooms. Who is anybody to tell me that I can't put my arm around my partner when I'm watching Canada win the gold medal at the Olympics? Be it a girl or a guy? You're telling me that it is okay to just shut up and ignore that kind of thing? Attitudes like that are why people are allowed to get away with things like this. If my girlfriend was black, would you be okay with Russia throwing me in jail for putting my arm around her at an Olympic event? Why should this be treated any differently?

[polak]

Originally Posted by Wormius

fyp.

Ew what?

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by fusebox

there is a huge difference. Homosexual athletes aren't being "banned" from the olympics. Homosexual athletes, and homosexual tourists, i might add, are being threatened with jail time simply for engaging in homosexual behavior in the privacy of their own hotel rooms. Who is anybody to tell me that i can't put my arm around my partner when i'm watching canada win the gold medal at the olympics? Be it a girl or a guy? You're telling me that it is okay to just shut up and ignore that kind of thing? Attitudes like that are why people are allowed to get away with things like this. If my girlfriend was black, would you be okay with russia throwing me in jail for putting my arm around her at an olympic event? Why should this be treated any differently?

wtf?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Fusebox

Russia is due to host the World Cup in 2018 and then Qatar in 2022. Homosexuality is a crime punishable by death in Qatar.

I won't be watching any of the Olympics in Russia and I will let any an every sponsor of the Olympics and Olympic coverage here in Canada that I will not be buying any of their products if I can avoid doing so due to Russia's stance on homosexuality.

It is all well and good to say that it is their country and they can set their own rules, but if they were actively discriminating against black or Jewish people there would be a far greater outcry.

Twenty years from now, this won't even be a discussion, such are the changing views amongst young people in the world today. I am 29 years old and I don't know a single person under thirty in my circle of friends who thinks that they have the right to judge someone else for the sexuality. Twenty years from now, we'll all be fifty and all of those dinosaurs that hate gay people will be dropping dead bit by bit.

I am incredibly proud to call myself a citizen of Canada for many reasons, not the least of which is the fact that we were one of the very first countries in the entire world to legalize gay marriage. Canada is a country with an extremely checkered past when it comes to slavery (yes, slavery, even though you'll never learn about Montreal being the biggest slave market in the entire continent for over one hundred years in grade school history class) and extreme discrimination when it comes to Native rights, as we are all aware or should be aware. Thankfully, we have taken steps as a country to show that we are leaders in the world when it comes to human rights. Let's hope that enough people climb on board and let the world know that we won't stand for Russia's discriminate stance against homosexuals.

Gee, that was a really good lecture. Thanks.

Luckily, we won't have to worry about Canada competing in the world cup in Russia or Qatar. If we did, though, I think a boycott would be a good idea.

Considering the Sochi Olympics are six months away and these ridiculous laws are brand new, it's a little late now.

[undercoverbrother]

Had The Shirtless Wonder not put this law on the books, I wonder how many people would be calling for a boycott.

Russia, even without this law, is not really a beacon of civil liberties. This law really is just the icing on the cake of crap that is Russia. Setting aside this new law there are plenty of other reasons to boycott Russia.

[GrrlGoalie33]

Originally Posted by Fusebox

Russia is due to host the World Cup in 2018 and then Qatar in 2022. Homosexuality is a crime punishable by death in Qatar.

I won't be watching any of the Olympics in Russia and I will let any an every sponsor of the Olympics and Olympic coverage here in Canada that I will not be buying any of their products if I can avoid doing so due to Russia's stance on homosexuality.

I'd just like to throw out to you that all major sponsors of the Olympics have been on board since long before Putin enacted this law. For them to leave their sponsorship now, after having paid all that money, could seriously impact/harm their business.

If you want to boycott VISA now, by all means, but it seems a bit foolish to me to punish a company for something that changed so long after they made their investment.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

So a hosting nation basically bans homosexuality so we boycott them. A nation that bans Jewish athletes we wouldn't boycott? Or an athlete that refuses to play against Jewish people?

Obviously we wouldn't have to, but we would look like fools if we didn't.

No we wouldn't.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Frankster

I'd just like to throw out to you that all major sponsors of the Olympics have been on board since long before Putin enacted this law. For them to leave their sponsorship now, after having paid all that money, could seriously impact/harm their business.

If you want to boycott VISA now, by all means, but it seems a bit foolish to me to punish a company for something that changed so long after they made their investment.

It's not punishment, it's pressuring the financial powers to play a role in pushing back against this law, or removing future support from events/nations that proudly stand for the denial of basic human rights.

[Flash Walken]

Uhm, but this isn't about the perception of what they might do or how things work east of the Urals or Jewish athletes in the oppressive muslim countries.

It's about an actual law in an actual place, and that actual place is ACTUALLY hosting the olympics. This isn't about one athlete refusing to compete against Mark Tewksbury, it's about the host country criminalizing the sexuality of many of the athletes who will be there competing. If Qatar was going to host the olympics and passed a law saying they would arrest any Jews seen practicing, discussing or promoting Judaism, you're goddamned right I'd be saying Canada should boycott. Luckily though, we don't have to think of these silly comparables, as one of the of the most offensive hypotheticals is the reality we are discussing here. The Berlin Olympics, which is being used as a comparison right now, isn't even valid. German officials weren't threatening to arrest Jesse Owens if he showed up looking a little too flamboyantly Black.

I think it is incredibly disappointing that this is not gaining more traction. Moneyed interests though once again trump human rights.

[CaptainCrunch]

Do you actually think that the Russian's will change the laws because of pressure from a company like Visa? Or will they laugh, say they already have the money and hang up the phone.

Any company that tries to remove themselves from the Olympics will find themselves sue'd 6 ways from sunset for breaking a contract anyways.

You could argue that an American boycott would be sufficient pressure, but it would do more to hurt the Olympic movement then the Russians.

They just don't care, they might have been our friends for a short period of time after the wall fell, but they sure ain't our friends now.

[GrrlGoalie33]

Originally Posted by valo403

It's not punishment, it's pressuring the financial powers to play a role in pushing back against this law, or removing future support from events/nations that proudly stand for the denial of basic human rights.

Maybe I'm far too simple minded, but I fail to see how Olympic sponsors can enact much change for these Olympics. I agree that they can speak volumes for future events by not sponsoring events in countries with (what we deem to be) bad human rights laws, but I fail to see how they can impact these Olympics.

Even if a major sponsor was to walk away today, I would think that most of their sponsorship cash or inkind has already been handed over. So walking away as a sponsor right now would only mean their name wouldn't appear anywhere, when they've already helped the Olympics to go on.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Frankster

Maybe I'm far too simple minded, but I fail to see how Olympic sponsors can enact much change for these Olympics. I agree that they can speak volumes for future events by not sponsoring events in countries with (what we deem to be) bad human rights laws, but I fail to see how they can impact these Olympics.

Even if a major sponsor was to walk away today, I would think that most of their sponsorship cash or inkind has already been handed over. So walking away as a sponsor right now would only mean their name wouldn't appear anywhere, when they've already helped the Olympics to go on.

They are the money. The people with the money have the loudest voice in any room.

[WilderPegasus]

Pretty hypocritical of some people (those wanting to boycott the Olympic Games in Russia) telling others (Olympic athletes) what to do (not participate in the games) because some people (Russian government) are telling others (homosexuals) what to do (not act gay in public).

[Wormius]

I think it depends on who gets the lion's share of the sponsorship money. Is it the IOC, or the host country?

But I would be happy with a delay and venue change. I don't think these games will offer any kind of lasting educational experience to Russia through the diversity of people and cultures that would come through its doors. I would like to see it fall on Putin as his failure.

[You Need a Thneed]

What would be the end goal of a boycott?

I suggest the end goal should be to change people's thinking, not to change the laws, and especially not change the laws by force.

Forcing the law to change doesn't change how the people think, and may further entrench their thinking.

I think the best protest would be for athletes to behave exactly as they could wish to behave anywhere else. Perhaps you have an incident, but international pressure wouldn't let Russia actually jail anyone. However, what would happen, it that Russia would embarrass itself, and that kind of embarrassment is what could change people's thinking over there.

In short, they have to come to see that they are wrong. The Olympics are a good forum for change, but real change won't come with a boycott. You can't force people to change.


As an aside, I suspect that a boycott would lead to some counter boycotts at the same time or in the future. Countries that are firmly against homosexuality could very likely boycott us. Do we care? Perhaps not, but it is an extra wrinkle to the whole situation.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by WilderPegasus

Pretty hypocritical of some people (those wanting to boycott the Olympic Games in Russia) telling others (Olympic athletes) what to do (not participate in the games) because some people (Russian government) are telling others (homosexuals) what to do (not act gay in public).

False Equivalency.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

What would be the end goal of a boycott?

I suggest the end goal should be to change people's thinking, not to change the laws, and especially not change the laws by force.

Forcing the law to change doesn't change how the people think, and may further entrench their thinking.

I think the best protest would be for athletes to behave exactly as they could wish to behave anywhere else. Perhaps you have an incident, but international pressure wouldn't let Russia actually jail anyone. However, what would happen, it that Russia would embarrass itself, and that kind of embarrassment is what could change people's thinking over there.

In short, they have to come to see that they are wrong. The Olympics are a good forum for change, but real change won't come with a boycott. You can't force people to change.


As an aside, I suspect that a boycott would lead to some counter boycotts at the same time or in the future. Countries that are firmly against homosexuality could very likely boycott us. Do we care? Perhaps not, but it is an extra wrinkle to the whole situation.

I think that the point that we're missing is that the Russian's simply don't care about external influence, if they did they would have softened their stance on Syria for example.

Russian's as a whole very much have a bunker mentality, That didn't change when the cold war ended, they just softened things to get money under Gorby and then Yeltsin. But because they are a nation that has frankly been abused by the foreign policies of other countries for ever they're not going to easily change their minds.

Look at that ##### Doll or whatever it is situation, tremendous international pressure was put on the Russian government to not prosecute and then to release those girls and they didn't relent.

America has put tremendous pressure on the Russians over Syria and over the Snowden situation and in both cases instead of relenting the Russians actually flipped up their middle finger and hardened their resolve and in Snowden's case went from trying to get him out of the country to letting him stay.

To me there are three sticks when it comes to the homosexuality laws and the Olympics

T.V. rights - a Tremendous amount of money flows into Russia's cash drawers from that. That's already been paid and advertising has already been sold. I doubt that the television carriers are going to back out, it would be a massive hit to them. I doubt that the advertisers will withdraw either. Even with a boycott in effect you will still get millions of viewers world wide.

Sponsor rights - I believe there is a split between the hosting nation and the Olympics. Again this has already been paid and the courts would side with the Olympics and Russia if agreements were broken and the money wouldn't be refunded If anything a boycott would hurt the sponsors who are the innocent parties in this whole thing as they paid long before the laws came into effect.

Tourism - aha you say, this is money that goes right into Russian pockets and the Olympics are the grand tamale of tourism. So people stay away right, streets are abandoned little stuffed bears go unsold. Waiters and bartenders look sadly at their empty restaurants as a tumble weed skips slowly past their door to some kind of sad 80's diva rock song right. Wrong, as much as homosexual rights has moved to the forefront does anyone honestly think that people will stay away in droves? It wouldn't matter, Animal Rights groups have been screaming for a boycott of the Stampede for years and animal rights is a pretty popular cause, cute little bunnies and horsies and the such, yet Calgary still gets millions upon millions in tourism revenues each and every year. Going to the Olympics for a vast majority of people is a bucket list item. They'll still make bank.

So how about boycotting Russian products? Well it would hurt average John . . . sorry Ivan Q public . . . errr Publinskiev.

There isn't much that can be done. maybe at a grass roots level. A hug in or whatever and being willing to pay the price of doing it in downtown Moscow. Or a athlete carrying a sign or wearing a rainbow pin. Or a Visa ad featuring two hot lesbians making out.

However if that kind of protest happens on Russian soil I have my doubts that they'll back down.

Just my 2 cents.