So what questions should i be asking my web designer?

[killer_carlson]

Hired a company for some work with m new office set up. Very happy with them thus far on my VOIP in particular.

However the web designer has been terrible. I made the mistake of looking at the ite on my ipad, and it looked ok, but on a regular computer it was terrible. Really amateur looking. Only advice he gave me was more content and more photos. I pulled the site down it was so bad. Have to start from scratch. To be clear on ths, the site will have 5 pages.

Ive again asked him for samples of websites he has previously designed, why he chose that template, etc. I provided him features i liked on other sites and they have totally been ignored, and not even acknowledged.

But does anyone have other advice for what i should be talking to him about?

The set up is going to be in Word Press, so i could update it myselfbut this was so bad that i am thinking of going to a package where i pay them to host and maintain the site.

Thoughts and suggestions welcome.

[BigNumbers]

I think the issue was trusting a VoIP setup company to do equally qualified work of a website was the issue - I'd ask them "do you do other things besides websites?"

...and if the answer is "yes", don't hire them. You want expert creative talent, as this is more important than your brick and mortar storefront - spend the money, do it right.

[killer_carlson]

I should add that the content has been used successfully or several years and was updated for this application.

For photos, no suggestions were offered as to what kinds of photos, just a reference to fotolia.com or something like that, which im not inlined to use.

Pretty bummed out over this. Site was supposed to have been up for July 26 and is now starting from scratch.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by BigNumbers

I think the issue was trusting a VoIP setup company to do equally qualified work of a website was the issue - I'd ask them "do you do other things besides websites?"

...and if the answer is "yes", don't hire them. You want expert creative talent, as this is more important than your brick and mortar storefront - spend the money, do it right.

Well, it is not like they are cheap on this. They were priced mid market or slightly higher and the company does provide substantial amounts of services in many areas. Like i said, the company was well referred and legitimately delivered in other areas. Just this part they dropped it.

[Rathji]

Wordpress is really easy to setup. Problem is, a basic Wordpress template is typically really crappy for a professional site and progresses to only a slightly crappy if you purchase a 'premium' template. In my eyes, the only way you are going to get something that seems like it isn't exactly what it is, is to get it properly designed from scratch (or at least using a framework)

Honestly, anyone could set up a Wordpress site for $500 and transfer all the content to it, and it would suck but at least you would have gotten what you paid for. Making a good website isn't just about being able to do the technical (or content) side of it though, you really need to understand some basic design principles.

[Russic]

Considering you're already waist deep in this thing, my first question would be what it would take to get out of this? The fact you're considering paying extra because the site might be too crappy to update yourself is a bit of a mind blower.

There are plenty of questions to ask, but they are generally important in the earlier stages of selecting a web designer.

As you're starting from scratch (again) I'd ask for a solid outline of every deliverable from conception, to launch, to post-launch. It seems odd that this even happened and I'm thinking you need to blow open the lines of communication here. Once your implicit desires weren't met the project should have come to a halt to address them in some way (either to put them in or adequately explain why they shouldn't be there).

While launching a site without looking at it on your computer was a bit of a misstep for you, I'm not sure what web designer doesn't provide flat images early on that give a 99% accurate "this is what your site will look like on the following devices". Perhaps he did and the final product just didn't match. Regardless, I would certainly ask for detailed outlines on how the final product is going to look across the board.

[killer_carlson]

Yeah, i accept the responsibility for the F up on this. Thank God i pulled it down early and can fix it.

I think my enthusiasm and confidence in the company caused me to take down my guard a bit.

I hear loud and clear on the word press thing. Understood and not at all what i want.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Russic

Considering you're already waist deep in this thing, my first question would be what it would take to get out of this? The fact you're considering paying extra because the site might be too crappy to update yourself is a bit of a mind blower.

There are plenty of questions to ask, but they are generally important in the earlier stages of selecting a web designer.

As you're starting from scratch (again) I'd ask for a solid outline of every deliverable from conception, to launch, to post-launch. It seems odd that this even happened and I'm thinking you need to blow open the lines of communication here. Once your implicit desires weren't met the project should have come to a halt to address them in some way (either to put them in or adequately explain why they shouldn't be there).

While launching a site without looking at it on your computer was a bit of a misstep for you, I'm not sure what web designer doesn't provide flat images early on that give a 99% accurate "this is what your site will look like on the following devices". Perhaps he did and the final product just didn't match. Regardless, I would certainly ask for detailed outlines on how the final product is going to look across the board.

It isnt that im looking to pay extra because the site is too crappy to update myself, rather it is this: i am very good at what i do, and equally important, there are not very many people who do what i do. However, i also understand that there are other things that i do not have the patience nor interest to do myself. I am prepared to outsource these latter items. Computers and IT are something i am prepared to outsource.

I got a bad contractor and can get out. Once i get out though, i still want to make sure i dont repeat the mistake.

[Rathji]

I

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Yeah, i accept the responsibility for the F up on this. Thank God i pulled it down early and can fix it.

I think my enthusiasm and confidence in the company caused me to take down my guard a bit.

I hear loud and clear on the word press thing. Understood and not at all what i want.

Just to clarify, not all WordPress sites suck, but unless you have a good developer, there are so many shortcut and easy ways to do things that it isn't hard to end up with something that is ill suited for a business.

It really boils down to what theme they are using, and a huge red flag to me world be that they are using something that is premade, either free or premium. Unless it exactly fits what you are needing.

Russics advice is bang on though, you should be given accurate mock-ups before any real work gets done. Don't get hung up on the CMS if the site works.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

It isnt that im looking to pay extra because the site is too crappy to update myself, rather it is this: i am very good at what i do, and equally important, there are not very many people who do what i do. However, i also understand that there are other things that i do not have the patience nor interest to do myself. I am prepared to outsource these latter items. Computers and IT are something i am prepared to outsource.

I got a bad contractor and can get out. Once i get out though, i still want to make sure i dont repeat the mistake.

Respectfully - maybe one of the things you're not very patient/interested in doing well is the outsourcing itself. You missed some key upfront steps on the website portion, and you also rushed out and bought a server, which are two things it seems like a more experienced consultant/advisor of some kind could have ensured delivered significantly more value/lower risk to you in the long run.

That your posting questions on here about these kinds of things would suggest to me that you're taking business risks in terms of how qualified you are to select the people/processes/technology that will underpin some of the operational aspects of your business that should essentially be worry free to you so you can concentrate on your core speciality.

I guess these are minor things at this stage of the game, please don't take offence - just concerned for you

[Russic]

Originally Posted by fotze

I think you just need to bite the bullet and hire these guys.
http://buildstudio.ca/portfolio/

I've heard their sexiness can be distracting. It's like working with the sun.

[MickMcGeough]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but it sounds like you hired a company who offers web design/development as a bolt-on service to IT work. If I've got that right, this was your only serious mistake. Web design is not an IT skill. If you're serious about your brand's online presence, you need to hire someone who makes web design their core business.

There are applications Wordpress is not appropriate for, but I seriously doubt yours is one of them. Rathji's right that you need a good developer to work with it, and that if your developer starts talking about what theme to use, you have the wrong designer (unless your total budget for this is $500 or something, in which case you can ignore my entire post). The theme should be "killer_carlson's custom-built theme", and the project overall should be treated as any custom web design and development project would be.

(start rant)
The thing that kills me about so many freelancers and small web shops is that they sell a service instead of a product. They charge hourly, engage in lengthy back-and-forth with the customer, they change button colors, they make the logo bigger, they add "pop" when a customer asks, and usually don't know what user experience means. All of this is wrong. You'll know you've found a good web shop when they treat it like a product. They should be asking you the questions. You should leave your first objectives/requirements meeting with them surprised at how much stuff you never even thought of. It's their responsibility to extract all the information they need to deliver a product that delights their customer.

When you ask for a pile of changes, they should fight you on it because they're professional web designers and they've spent more time thinking about that button's color than you have. They shouldn't let you get away with giving it a once-over on an iPad - when they deliver the finished product to you it should be in person (if possible) and they should be taking you through every detail. Every product they deliver is an extension of their brand, and they should be excited to deliver it to you and to add it to their portfolio.
(end rant)

ETA: Rathji doesn't really hate Wordpress

[renny]

Originally Posted by MickMcGeough

(start rant)
The thing that kills me about so many freelancers and small web shops is that they sell a service instead of a product. They charge hourly, engage in lengthy back-and-forth with the customer, they change button colors, they make the logo bigger, they add "pop" when a customer asks, and usually don't know what user experience means. All of this is wrong. You'll know you've found a good web shop when they treat it like a product. They should be asking you the questions. You should leave your first objectives/requirements meeting with them surprised at how much stuff you never even thought of. It's their responsibility to extract all the information they need to deliver a product that delights their customer.

To add to this, I think the bigger issue is these shops don't have dedicated analysts or UX guys on their teams. They are designers, as a result they don't have any real data or insight to provide to the customers in terms of the product that they're delivering. Those additional items that MickMcGeough mentioned in the discovery meeting should all come from the analysts that are on their team.

/rant

[Table 5]

nm, not helping!

[maverickstruth]

Also agreeing with the above, except in one critical area - the use of themes.

Now, when the budget allows for it, I completely agree that custom is the way to go. Ground up, from scratch, doing personas, mood boards, wireframes, mockups, UX path flows, etc. - there is absolutely a place, market and reason for that.

But I'd argue that there's also a place for doing the same level of business needs analysis - the same depth of research, the same level of UX and planning and strategy, etc. - and then having a professional source a theme that will be specifically chosen to meet the specific needs of the business. One that's well-coded, not bloated, and which has good "bones". And then customizing that theme (and I'm not just talking choosing different colors and slapping in different pictures and logos; I'm talking about extensive information architecture, UX/UI design, going down into the code as necessary) so that it is effective for the business and helps them meet their ultimate strategic goals. From that approach, it's essentially more like outsourcing the initial coding - and allowing the web professional to focus their attentions on the specific business needs in implementation and design.

Automatically assuming that "theme = bad" is a mistake, I think. Yes, it's ideal if every budget can allow for a completely custom product. But there's also a place for the strategic deployment of outsourced (ie. theme-based) work - provided that it's a *strategic* deployment with customization, and not just a "slap on the theme, fiddle with a few buttons in the UI, and call it a day" approach.

It's the overall approach that makes the difference, not the specific tools one uses to do it. A great designer will do all the things that Mick and renny identified - and they'll help you make the right choices, for your brand and your business. That could look like using a theme and customizing it; it could look like using a framework and creating a child theme; it could look like completely custom work.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by MickMcGeough

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but it sounds like you hired a company who offers web design/development as a bolt-on service to IT work. If I've got that right, this was your only serious mistake. Web design is not an IT skill. If you're serious about your brand's online presence, you need to hire someone who makes web design their core business.

I'll respectfully disagree with Rathji on the general Wordpress sentiment. There are applications it's not appropriate for, but I seriously doubt yours is one of them. But he's right that you need a good developer to work with it, and that if your developer starts talking about what theme to use, you have the wrong designer (unless your total budget for this is $500 or something, in which case you can ignore my entire post). The theme should be "killer_carlson's custom-built theme", and the project overall should be treated as any custom web design and development project would be.

(start rant)
The thing that kills me about so many freelancers and small web shops is that they sell a service instead of a product. They charge hourly, engage in lengthy back-and-forth with the customer, they change button colors, they make the logo bigger, they add "pop" when a customer asks, and usually don't know what user experience means. All of this is wrong. You'll know you've found a good web shop when they treat it like a product. They should be asking you the questions. You should leave your first objectives/requirements meeting with them surprised at how much stuff you never even thought of. It's their responsibility to extract all the information they need to deliver a product that delights their customer.

When you ask for a pile of changes, they should fight you on it because they're professional web designers and they've spent more time thinking about that button's color than you have. They shouldn't let you get away with giving it a once-over on an iPad - when they deliver the finished product to you it should be in person (if possible) and they should be taking you through every detail. Every product they deliver is an extension of their brand, and they should be excited to deliver it to you and to add it to their portfolio.
(end rant)

I think you misunderstood my sentiment, because I agree with almost everything you said about it here. I probably wasn't very clear about it though.

The thing about Wordpress that is problematic, is any idiot with hosting can set up a site that actually functions, so they think they can claim they have the ability to make websites and charge people for it. If you are only capable of using a premade template, you are not a web designer, and shouldn't be selling your services as such.

[MickMcGeough]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I think you misunderstood my sentiment, because I agree with almost everything you said about it here. I probably wasn't very clear about it though.

The thing about Wordpress that is problematic, is any idiot with hosting can set up a site that actually functions, so they think they can claim they have the ability to make websites and charge people for it. If you are only capable of using a premade template, you are not a web designer, and shouldn't be selling your services as such.

I think I misunderstood too, and yes, any idiot can toss a theme on a Wordpress instance and call themselves a designer (and often do).

[Regular_John]

Yup as other's have said building/designing/developing a website is not an IT service, and WordPress (as much as I love it) is not a "web design" tool in anyway shape or form.

What are the goals of your website?
(Business leads? Reputation management?)

Who is the audience?
(B2B, B2C, vendors?)

What is your audience's goal?
(Learn about your company? Purchase direct?)

What is your business goal and how does the website serve that goal?
(Are your customers buying direct from the site? Have you sent a proposal to your client and the site is there to back up your company story?)