[Rumour] Leafs to buyout John-Michael Liles

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Anduril

Trading for an extra (though probably unnecessary) depth defenseman is boneheaded?

In this case, yes.

[theoforever]

I'm not that big on Russell but if Feaster is planning to trade Butler then no problem there.
Anyway like it was stated before just another depth d-man.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I hope I'm proven wrong but trading for Russell, the smallest defenceman in the NHL when we already have probably the smallest defence in the NHL, doesn't rock my boat. Feaster makes a couple of good moves and than does something boneheaded.

Kris Russell is not the smallest defensmen in the league. That distinction probably belongs to Jared Spurgeon.

Trading a 5th round pick for a quality, young, NHL defender is the furthest thing away from being a boneheaded decision.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Nonis used his compliance buyouts to get rid of his best centreman, and on a Dman with an expiring contract.

That's... not really very smart. Especially when Liles was the one guy who was buy-out bait right from day 1.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Kris Russell is not the smallest defensmen in the league. That distinction probably belongs to Jared Spurgeon.

Trading a 5th round pick for a quality, young, NHL defender is the furthest thing away from being a boneheaded decision.

I wouldn't have any problem if we had a couple of beasts on the back end to balance it out but we don't, so he doesn't fit.

[davidbjordan]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Nonis used his compliance buyouts to get rid of his best centreman, and on a Dman with an expiring contract.

That's... not really very smart. Especially when Liles was the one guy who was buy-out bait right from day 1.

grabovski wasn't their best centreman and he had a terrible contract.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by davidbjordan

grabovski wasn't their best centreman and he had a terrible contract.

I think we must be talking about either a different Grabovski, or a different team.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I wouldn't have any problem if we had a couple of beasts on the back end to balance it out but we don't, so he doesn't fit.

Russell could possibly lead the flames D in scoring

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Hasn't the 48-hour buyout window passed for the Leafs?

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

I think we must be talking about either a different Grabovski, or a different team.

With Kadri showing he could be the #2 center, and bozak having more chemistry with Kessel, Grabovski would have been a $5+ million center on the 3rd line.

They did the right thing buying out Grabovski, but should have bought out Liles instead of Komiserak.

Kind of amazed they can not trade Liles if they eat up $1.3 million of his salary?

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

Hasn't the 48-hour buyout window passed for the Leafs?

Nope started yesterday and end tomorrow.

[Husky]

JML is a solid #4D who is very good at puck moving and on the PP. I could see Detroit being interested and him putting up some serious points.

[getbak]

Wouldn't he have needed to go on waivers today in order for them to buy him out tomorrow?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by _Q_

So... who will be the first to say they want the Flames to sign this guy?

I want the Flames to sign this guy.

In all seriousness, Liles is an ok defender who can move the puck well. Soft as butter though. He doesn't fill any need on this team that is looking to fill the roster with prospects before any veterans, so I don't see any way they pick him up. But we are also woefully low on top 4 defensemen, so it very well could happen. I still would say give the kids a chance before signing anyone else.

[$ven27]

So does this mean they're keeping Franson? Wouldn't mind the Flames throwing an offer out for him, big young RHD would be nice

[davidbjordan]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

I think we must be talking about either a different Grabovski, or a different team.

the same grabovski that earned little playing time, did selfish puck tricks in the playoffs and then bad mouthed his team after they bought him out?

doesn't sound like a valuable player to me

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

With Kadri showing he could be the #2 center, and bozak having more chemistry with Kessel, Grabovski would have been a $5+ million center on the 3rd line.

Kessel produces more when he is APART from Bozak. More goals, more shots, more offensive zone time, better team differential in goals, better team differential in shots, etc. Bozak drags down virtually all of Kessel's numbers.

The only exception is assists, but a) it's not Bozak scoring those goals that Kessel is assisting on because Bozak has never broken 18 goals in a season, and b) it doesn't matter anyways because the team still scores fewer goals per shift when Bozak is centering Kessel than they do when anybody else is centering him.


On the contrary, Kessel's numbers all improve when is on the ice with Grabovski. He does better by every measure. This also isn't limited to Kessel. Most of the other productive wingers on the Leafs also produce more with Grabovski than with Kessel.

Of course the clincher is that when they're not playing with Kessel, Bozak sucks, and his production drops by 50%, whereas Grabovski can put up 20+ goals on his own merits. Of couse Bozak has never hit 20 goals in his career, even when playing with Kessel and being force-fed 1st line minutes.


Here's some graphs and stuff from a website that publishes a new article almost every week demonstrating that Grabovski produces more, and drives more offence, than Bozak:
http://theleafsnation.com/2013/5/17/...game-as-a-leaf

http://theleafsnation.com/2013/6/20/...-bozak-edition

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Kessel produces more when he is APART from Bozak. More goals, more shots, more offensive zone time, better team differential in goals, better team differential in shots, etc. Bozak drags down virtually all of Kessel's numbers.

The only exception is assists, but a) it's not Bozak scoring those goals that Kessel is assisting on because Bozak has never broken 18 goals in a season, and b) it doesn't matter anyways because the team still scores fewer goals per shift when Bozak is centering Kessel than they do when anybody else is centering him.


On the contrary, Kessel's numbers all improve when is on the ice with Grabovski. He does better by every measure. This also isn't limited to Kessel. Most of the other productive wingers on the Leafs also produce more with Grabovski than with Kessel.

Of course the clincher is that when they're not playing with Kessel, Bozak sucks, and his production drops by 50%, whereas Grabovski can put up 20+ goals on his own merits. Of couse Bozak has never hit 20 goals in his career, even when playing with Kessel and being force-fed 1st line minutes.


Here's some graphs and stuff from a website that publishes a new article almost every week demonstrating that Grabovski produces more, and drives more offence, than Bozak:
http://theleafsnation.com/2013/5/17/...game-as-a-leaf

http://theleafsnation.com/2013/6/20/...-bozak-edition

The problem with your stats is that what counts the most is last year. Grabovski got a whopping 16 points. Any time he paired with Kessel they had no chemistry. Up until this year they had been using Bozak as the 3rd line center. Thye gave him his chance at first line center and he showed better chemistry than Grabovski.

Don't get me wrong i think Grabovski is a good 2nd line center. I also see Bozak as a 2nd line center. They kept the guy with better chemistry for the top line. Bozak kind of reminds me of Conroy. Conroy to me was a 2nd line center but when playing with Iggy they had some chemistry.

Bozak also plays a better 200' game over Grabovski. This probably helps him play with Kessel on the top line because Kessel is not that great in his own end.

Would Toronto rather have a true #1 center? Of course they would, but were unable to get it done. Neither Bozak or Grabovski are the answer for a #1 center.

[OzSome]

Originally Posted by _Q_

So... who will be the first to say they want the Flames to sign this guy?

The same thought i have. It seems like every available player (good or not) at least someone will say Flames can use the guy or something like that. I remember way back then, Maple Leaf's fans here in CP always says Toronto will sign him or Toronto should have him..

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

The problem with your stats is that what counts the most is last year. Grabovski got a whopping 16 points. Any time he paired with Kessel they had no chemistry. Up until this year they had been using Bozak as the 3rd line center. Thye gave him his chance at first line center and he showed better chemistry than Grabovski.

Grabovski was largely forced into a defensive assignment by Carlyle last year, with more defensive zone starts than any other Leafs forward, I believe (or very close to it), and a stone cold Kulemin, along with Colton Orr at times, as his linemates. Furthermore, how many games did he play as the #1 C? I certainly don't remember very many complete games played in that role for Grabovski, and I watched all the Leafs games last year. Finally, he was plagued with a stomach/digestive issue that was impacting his ability to maintain playing weight and energy for a good chunk of the season.

Grabbo wasn't in Carlyle's good books, not unlike how Kadri wasn't in Wilson's good books previously - I'm not surprised he badmouthed the team on his way out; at times it felt like Carlyle went out of his way to marginalize Grabovski (the shootout snub against Winnipeg being one example, and having more than 75% of his starts being in the defensive zone being another).