[Signing] Flames sign Josh Jooris (2 yr ELC, $925k AAV)

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Parallex

He's 23 years old and was competing against a group composed of many 18, 19, and 20 year olds.

He's going to be at worst a guy that scores 40-50 points on your AHL team and can be a competent player to assist the other prospects in their development. The amount of upper end potential is likely small, but it isn't like they are signing him to be a scorer on the flames this season, more like he'll replace what Ben Walter was to the Heat.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Does that mean Berra should not have a contract?

No, but it does mean that you should take his performance at a development camp with a big giant grain of salt.

[sureLoss]

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=679119

official

Contract Terms: Two-year entry level contract $832,500 / $70,000 per year and a signing bonus of $92,500 in each year for an AAV of $925,000.

[Red Menace]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

He's going to be at worst a guy that scores 40-50 points on your AHL team and can be a competent player to assist the other prospects in their development. The amount of upper end potential is likely small, but it isn't like they are signing him to be a scorer on the flames this season, more like he'll replace what Ben Walter was to the Heat.

You know no one on the Heat had 50 pts last season...so suddenly this guy is the best player on the Heat??
I have no problems with the signing, but lets temper our expectations.
At worst he is a bust who scores <10 pts per season in Abby.....that's probably just as likely as him being a 50 pt guy.
Not saying I don't like the signing.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Parallex

No, but it does mean that you should take his performance at a development camp with a big giant grain of salt.

With that big grain of salt though go ahead and add a dash of excitement. This was one of the best development camps the Flames have had and we were all very excited about our prospects that were in attendance. In that crowd, Jooris still managed to turn some heads.

Being 23 might have helped him out a little bit but we had more kids at camp that were 21 or 22 (or older) than we had 18 year olds.

Originally Posted by Parallex

Well, to be safe I'd basically assume that I take back 1 contract per trade (cap or reserve list reasons + young players/prospects) and then assume that you'll sign and play all your senior college guys + gaudreau and hopefully at least one of the better guys from the upcoming class. Not a lot of wiggle room left there.

By the time the college guys become available the Flames will have gone through the trade deadline. I expect that we will be trying to make deadline trade for picks / prospects and not for players that will count against our 50 contract limit.

If the team were to teleport through time from today to the last month of the season then I could see a reason for your concern but as it is there is a lot of time for transactions to take place to make this a zero-risk signing.

[sureLoss]

Jooris was suprised when the Flames offered him a contract:

"I think it caught a lot of people off guard, including myself," Jooris said. "Going into this summer, I wasn't expecting anything out of this camp. Never in my dreams that I would be getting this opportunity to play.


"When you go into a development camp, you want to show that you can play, and you want to show your stuff. They liked the way I played. They liked what I brought on and off the ice, and they said they were going to offer me a contract."
Flames general manager Jay Featser is pleased to have Jooris with the organization.


"Josh is a right shot center with size and skill,” Feaster said in a statement. "During our recent development camp, he played an aggressive, up-tempo style and displayed good grit and a high compete level. Our staff felt strongly that we should attempt to get him signed, and we are pleased to welcome him to the organization. He will play for us in Penticton, and then will be given an opportunity to compete for a spot at main camp."

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=679119

official

Contract Terms: Two-year entry level contract $832,500 / $70,000 per year and a signing bonus of $92,500 in each year for an AAV of $925,000.

That's about as cheap as they come. So you've got a longshot on a 2 way deal for 1 year.

Which is exactly what you need when you're rebuilding. And if it turns out he is an NHL depth player, you can trade him to a club in cap trouble since his contract hit is minimal.

Nothing to dislike here IMO.

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by Parallex

You can't guarentee that... maybe the other teams will need to send back a player because their own list is full, the Flames might need to take on a contract for salary cap purposes (ours or theirs), maybe the best deal is one that involves taking on extra contracts. On top of all of our own property guys that we'd want signed.

I'd rather the Flames keep it as simple as possible then edge closer to complications so that they can sign a 23 year old guy whose development curve in the NCAA was effectively flat in terms of statlines.

What role did he play in the NCAA? Was he on the top line, did he move up through the ranks, was he a shutdown forward? Just curious to know the context of his statistics.

How did you feel he performed during the camp? Was it obvious from observing his play that he displayed more maturity as a hockey player or moreso as a professional?

I think if you could answer these questions, it would help a lot in respect to the arguments you're presenting. We'd all get another informed perspective.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

He's going to be at worst a guy that scores 40-50 points on your AHL team and can be a competent player to assist the other prospects in their development. The amount of upper end potential is likely small, but it isn't like they are signing him to be a scorer on the flames this season, more like he'll replace what Ben Walter was to the Heat.

At worst 40-50 guy in AHL?

He seems to be more if a guy that will have to work hard to keep a spot on the Heat and 40-50 points would be by far the best case scenario for him.

Don't mind the signing because at this point cares we have the money and roster space but 40-50 points sounds crazy.

[Ashasx]

I think it's odd that his ELC is for that much money... 550k should have done it.

[dammage79]

It's all about developing these players properly. If the Flames have a decent enough development strategy, these unknown could end up being great pickups. Time will tell. But this is yet another zero risk high reward type signing. Just glad they're adding more and more RH shots. something sorely lacking in the system the last few years.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I think it's odd that his ELC is for that much money... 550k should have done it.

I wonder if the bonus is tied into the salary. It looks like it is 10%. Just spit balling, but with the high salary maybe they were able to give him a larger signing bonus. If that is the case that is the number that really matters because he will probably only see the majority of the 70k AHL salary plus the bonus. If the bonus was 55k (assuming it is 10%) that is pretty much cost of school for a year in the states isn't it?

[getbak]

I wonder if negotiations with Bancks have soured to the point that they decided Jooris was a better option? Jooris is almost a year younger and slightly bigger than Bancks, plus, he's a right handed shot, which are lacking throughout the organization.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Parallex

How about nothing (at least right now)? I think I'd rather have an open reserve list spot available for someone potentially better down the road.

I wonder if you were saying that when we signed Mark Giordano as an undrafted camp invitee.

Signing free agents is a legitimate way to find players.

[Stay Golden]

2 way contract i am fine with that but his NHL money seems about 400k too high. What round was he drafted? Maybe the CBA indicates a player drafted a certain round get no less than 900k?

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

You know no one on the Heat had 50 pts last season...so suddenly this guy is the best player on the Heat??
I have no problems with the signing, but lets temper our expectations.
At worst he is a bust who scores <10 pts per season in Abby.....that's probably just as likely as him being a 50 pt guy.
Not saying I don't like the signing.

Walter had 49.

Ben Street, who I've compared Jooris to, had 30 points in each of his last two NCAA seasons. Jooris had 28 and 28.

In Street's 3 seasons in the AHL, he put up 23 points in 36 games, 57 in 71, and 37 points last year.

What I saw of Jooris during the camp reminded me a lot of Ben Street. Solid generally in the offensive end but not spectacular. That's why I compared him to that standard of player. No comparison is 100% accurate, but it's a fairly close comparison from what I've witnessed of both players.

Originally Posted by moon

At worst 40-50 guy in AHL?

He seems to be more if a guy that will have to work hard to keep a spot on the Heat and 40-50 points would be by far the best case scenario for him.

Don't mind the signing because at this point cares we have the money and roster space but 40-50 points sounds crazy.

I'm not saying that he's going to walk on to the heat and put up 40-50 points this season (I'd expect closer to 30-35), but in a season or two, I could see him being a leader type down in Abby.

Most of the players that have his track record of putting up that amount of points in the NCAA go on to be either decent 3rd/4th line guys (see Hanowski or David Moss/Eric Nystrom from the past) if their game is suited to that, or become decent scorers in the AHL if not. Nothing is guaranteed, but from what I saw, he should be in the latter group.

[Imported_Aussie]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

2 way contract i am fine with that but his NHL money seems about 400k too high. What round was he drafted? Maybe the CBA indicates a player drafted a certain round get no less than 900k?

Who cares if his NHL money is too high - if he plays well enough on the Heat to earn a callup, then let him be paid. In fact, signing a deal that gives that much of a jump to NHL level may just be a real incentive to fight for that callup. It is not like the Flames will hap cap issues in the next 2 seasons, and if he plays well enough to earn a contract after this, then starting at the higher dollar level is less of an issue again

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

2 way contract i am fine with that but his NHL money seems about 400k too high. What round was he drafted? Maybe the CBA indicates a player drafted a certain round get no less than 900k?

He's an eighth rounder.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

2 way contract i am fine with that but his NHL money seems about 400k too high. What round was he drafted? Maybe the CBA indicates a player drafted a certain round get no less than 900k?

He was undrafted, but he had one more year of college eligibility.

The thing with college players is that you have to give them an incentive to forgo the final year of college (and likely give up a nice scholarship), and you do that by giving him a maximum ELC and the associated signing bonus.



EDIT: It looks like Union College is one of only 4 non-Ivy League Division 1 Colleges to not offer Athletic Scholarships, although, student athletes can still receive regular academic scholarships and student aid.

[Stampede2TheCup]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Not just the raw stats it's the flatness of the developmental curve, if he'd shown an improvement in them over the three year in the NCAA I'd see more of a capacity for upside but he's essentually just tread water, that's better then sinking but hardly encouraging.

Unless you've followed his team you're only looking at the raw stats to judge his development curve. There's lots of reasons why he could be developing well but stagnating in points. Injuries, linemates, ice time and responsibilities, and how good his team is all can play a big part in the bottom line. One thing that I see is that he's a real playmaker type and seems to have been on the 2nd line behind a guy two years older than him. In his last year of junior he had 26 goals and 90 assists while last year he had 12 goals and 16 assists. The gap between his goals and assists is even much much smaller than his other college years so to me that points to him not having a good enough scorer to set up.

It seems like everyone who saw him in development camp is fine with the signing. It's already been asked but did you even see him play there or anywhere else?