Streetcar shooting: Toronto police officer suspended

[Acey]

Originally Posted by nik-

Such a severe overreaction.

Just to play devil's advocate, what is an appropriate reaction here?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Acey

Just to play devil's advocate, what is an appropriate reaction here?

Maintaining distance since he was in a streetcar and not an immediate threat. Then if they decided they just had to take him down, using the taser.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by fleury

The kid asks everyone to get off the bus without harm to anyone, so really was not a threat to the riders or driver despite having the knife.

Uhh, what? The only reason the driver or the riders got off the bus was because he was a threat, a threat with a knife.

I am not sure why he was shot, but the investigation is going to find out.

Let's not make it like the guy with the knife was just minding his own business.

[Canuck-Hater]

Originally Posted by Tyler

When police tell you to put down the knife, you listen. Simple as that.

Yeah, so shooting someone 9 times is the next logical step. There are plenty of non-lethal tactics the police could of used in this situation.

[Nage Waza]

Not that I think the police are without blame, but seriously, forcing anyone into a situation where they have to point a gun at you and you ignore their warnings is pushing the limits pretty far. One cop having a bad day of their own, possibly overwhelmed by the situation, can make anyone hyper sensitive to anything. Not to excuse murder, but the police have a pretty tough job. The guys in this thread calling the cop all sorts of names in here would probably pee themselves in the same situation.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by nik-

Maintaining distance since he was in a streetcar and not an immediate threat. Then if they decided they just had to take him down, using the taser.

Tasers are not an effective method of neutralizing a threat, I'll patiently wait for Canuck-Hater to list the plenty of non-lethal options you have when a kid is allegedly coming at you with a knife. The officer is well within his rights to neutralize the threat.

I agree that this is like the Trayvon case in that people have beef with the police officer, instead of with the law that authorizes him to shoot.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Acey

Tasers are not an effective method of neutralizing a threat, I'll patiently wait for Canuck-Hater to list the plenty of non-lethal options you have when a kid is allegedly coming at you with a knife. The officer is well within his rights to neutralize the threat.

I agree that this is like the Trayvon case in that people have beef with the police officer, instead of with the law that authorizes him to shoot.

Well if you think that was the appropriate response, I have no time to discuss it with you because I can't bridge that gap.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Acey

Tasers are not an effective method of neutralizing a threat

Then how did they save 110,000 lives?

[Acey]

Originally Posted by zamler

Then how did they save 110,000 lives?

Well... if they were considered capable of effectively neutralizing a potentially lethal threat, why do police still carry firearms?

I'm not even a gun advocate. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the other side of this argument.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by nik-

Well if you think that was the appropriate response, I have no time to discuss it with you because I can't bridge that gap.

Whether or not I think it's the appropriate response is irrelevant, the argument you have to make is not against me, but against the current laws which authorizes law enforcement to shoot when faced with a potentially lethal threat.

Just so happens that I agree with said law.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Acey

Well... if they were considered capable of effectively neutralizing a potentially lethal threat, why do police still carry firearms?

How about you answer that question? I'm pretty sure I know the answer, in fact I can't see how the answer could get much more obvious.

But I'd like to know what your answer is.

[Acey]

TASERs do work. However, a TASER deployment can sometimes be rendered ineffective for certain reasons. The most common reason that a TASER deployment might fail is lack of a circuit. If you miss with one or both of the probes, there will be no circuit. If a wire breaks or a probe is pulled loose during a struggle, no circuit. If there is a "clothing disconnect," i.e. one or both probes getting hung up in the target's clothing, more than two inches from the skin surface, no circuit.


You can usually immediately tell when any of these events occur. Your target may be reacting to the pain of the TASER hit, but may still be fighting. Note the sound the TASER makes while it is cycling. If it emits a loud clacking sound, there is an inadequate circuit. When a TASER circuit is complete, and incapacitating energy is being delivered into a target, the cycling sound will be much quieter.

Not to mention the fact that for the taser to be most effective you're going to want to be close enough to the subject that he could have lunged out and stabbed your stupid ass anyway. But more importantly... why should these public servants be forced to play Russian roulette with their lives? These people have families to go home to. Again, make an argument as to why the law should be changed, as it's the law everywhere... must be for a reason. Arguing over the effectiveness of a taser seems like a waste of time cause they're allowed to shoot you anyway.

[Flames_Gimp]

everyone ignores the part in the video where the suspect charges towards the officers, that action is what provoked the shooting. The cop didn't just "decide he's an imminent threat"

[Acey]

Originally Posted by zamler

How about you answer that question? I'm pretty sure I know the answer, in fact I can't see how the answer could get much more obvious.

But I'd like to know what your answer is.

To neutralize lethal threats. Knife = lethal threat. So they shot him. Duhhhh

That video last year comes to mind where the dude with a crowbar is like 5 feet from 2 cops, one tases him, dude pulls out the prongs like they were splinters and he didn't even feel them. So they shot him.

Russian roulette.

[spiteface]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

everyone ignores the part in the video where the suspect charges towards the officers

what are u smoking? go watch the video again he never charges the officer

[Acey]

Originally Posted by spiteface

what are u smoking? go watch the video again he never charges the officer

Dunno if it's going to matter. Lethbridge police shot a guy last year who had a knife, couldn't speak English very well. The officers said he walked toward them, some witness was saying otherwise. Took a year, but ASIRT cleared all the officers.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/al...130/story.html

[Bunk]

Thread title says streetcar shooting, youtube video says streetcar, yet most everyone's calling it a bus. Weird. Sorry for being pedantic.

Anyway, hard to find a justification for this.

[zamler]

Request to include a poll with this thread, shooting justified YES/NO.

[Jagermeister]

Really tough video to see exactly what happened. You can't even see the guy on the bus. Maybe he was about to throw the knife at the officer or something.

Still doesn't make sense with the amount of shots fired, but like other posters said could be bad aim. But, I mean let get serious, something had to be going on, why wouldn't the kid just put the knife down... Seriously there's ####ing cops everywhere with guns pointed at you... Just drop the damn knife.

[RinkRat]

Initially all I could think was suicide by cop, but I'm curious to learn more about the officer in question. Video is always a half truth given the angle, but this one looks pretty bad.

I generally stand up for law enforcement (not blindly) coming from a law enforcement family. So I'm curious what this particular officers background is.