It's time to retire #14

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by krynski

Maybe I can not fully deny that I do not respect him more than the average human being. However, my perception of things is that while my "bitterness" and "condescendingness" is directed at him in general, it does not represent my personality as a whole. That is my opinion on a single person, not the entire world.
I feel his "bitterness" and "condescendingness" is directed at absolutely everyone and is all-encompassing.

Since you made these suggestions about me, I have no choice but to conclude that you too are condescending and bitter.
This is a cyclical argument. Just something to ponder. I don't actually think you are condescending and bitter.

Me condescending and bitter? I was trying to make a point that what you were doing (through your own statements) wasn't much better than what you were accusing Theo of. It wouldn't be fair for people to trash talk you based on your comments when we don't consider, or know the whole picture; I thought you used some strong language when you could probably have said the same thing being a lot more civil. I think you get my point and I respect your opinion, I just don't agree.

[PeteLFan]

I liked theo he was fun to watch and there is no denying his impact on the flames.

People talk about his attitude and being a d bag well when you consider what he went through its hard to imagine how he kept it together. Not sure how people think getting raped over and over by another man is something you can just get over. He's been ruined for life.

Put his number up, no more of this dumb honor the number night.

[Joborule]

The fact that Fleury is the greatest Flame of all time next to Iggy means he should be retired alone; add in that crap he has gone through in life and that gives even more reason. It shows that through all adversity and everything working against you, he still manage to get as far as he did and perform with greatest for the fans for many seasons.

Retiring his jersey wouldn't just be for his accomplishments as a Flames alone, but can also be viewed as inspiration for those who have/are living troubled lives themselves. It really is amazing he was able to be a superstar in the NHL.

[Alberta_Beef]

Just a question for those firmly in the "retire his number camp".

Why would a franchise want to honour a player that has said disparaging things about it? Even after they gave him another shot to come back, he couldn't leave without a pot shot at someone that made the team (Conroy I think?).

I loved Theo as a player, he was my favourite of all time on the ice, but quite frankly his attitude towards the Flames leaves too much to be desired to give him such an honour.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Just a question for those firmly in the "retire his number camp".

Why would a franchise want to honour a player that has said disparaging things about it? Even after they gave him another shot to come back, he couldn't leave without a pot shot at someone that made the team (Conroy I think?).

Because they (hopefully), like us, know what he's been through. Just think about, a dude had sex with him when he was a kid. He didn't hit him, or say mean things to him. He literally put his penis in his but, night after night, and ruined his life. The fact that he's done what he's done is a god damn miracle.

So I guess most of us are able to see what an incredible talent he was and what an amazing case of perseverance his life has been, and look past his irrational outbursts and attitude problems, as we know here they come from.

If anything, his negative actions should be held accountable to Graham James, not Theo.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Because they (hopefully), like us, know what he's been through. Just think about, a dude had sex with him when he was a kid. He didn't hit him, or say mean things to him. He literally put his penis in his but, night after night, and ruined his life. The fact that he's done what he's done is a god damn miracle.

So I guess most of us are able to see what an incredible talent he was and what an amazing case of perseverance his life has been, and look past his irrational outbursts and attitude problems, as we know here they come from.

If anything, his negative actions should be held accountable to Graham James, not Theo.

Theo is still responsible for his actions. Yeah he had a ####ed up life that no one should have to be put through, but you can't use that as an excuse to be an #######. People are still responsible for their actions.

[Fire]

He's a no-brainer to be the next "Forever a Flame". Kiprusoff and Iginla will follow in time.

[Flash Walken]

Was Theo ever wrong in his comments about the organization?

Honest question.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Was Theo ever wrong in his comments about the organization?

Honest question.

What exactly did he say?

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Just a question for those firmly in the "retire his number camp".

Why would a franchise want to honour a player that has said disparaging things about it? Even after they gave him another shot to come back, he couldn't leave without a pot shot at someone that made the team (Conroy I think?).

I loved Theo as a player, he was my favourite of all time on the ice, but quite frankly his attitude towards the Flames leaves too much to be desired to give him such an honour.

I did not have a problem with what Fleury said about Conroy and the Flames at the time. He was pretty bang on with his comments. Conroy should not have been on the team and seemed to be picked to fit the "country club atmosphere". At least Fleury would have had some passion on the ice and in the locker room.

I believe Roenick has had his # retired and that guy says whatever is on his mind, good or bad.

[krynski]

Originally Posted by flameswin

If anything, his negative actions should be held accountable to Graham James, not Theo.

Oh heck no. You can't hold someone else accountable for your own actions. That's ridiculous. Should someone cheap on their partner because their partner cheated on them? Should the Columbine shooter should have a clean slate because society treated him like crap? Does a terrorist get an excuse because he was heavily indoctrinated?

At some point, you have to do some self reflection and ask yourself if you are doing the right thing. I'm not saying that one can't make mistakes, but one should do something to at least acknowledge that they did the wrong thing and the only person at fault is himself.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Fire

He's a no-brainer to be the next "Forever a Flame". Kiprusoff and Iginla will follow in time.

If Kipper and Iginla don't get proper "jersey in the rafter" retirements this franchise can go to hell.

[theoforever]

Fleury is not a polarizing figure for Calgarians in general just for a bunch of fanatics on CP.
Let’s keep it in perspective, posters here are not your average fans.
Overwhelming majority of casual fans that have seen Theo play would lover to have his number retired.

As for krynski, what actions do you want to hold Fleury accountable for?

Lots of comments Fleury made about Flames organization were accurate.
Flames have a long history of antagonizing former players, nickle and diming them, etc.

If drugs and drinking should be a barrier to having his number retired then lets remove Vernon’s. Hard to believe this guy got his number retired.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by polak

If Kipper and Iginla don't get proper "jersey in the rafter" retirements this franchise can go to hell.

I'm pretty sure the introduction of "Forever a Flame" has eliminated any future traditional jersey retirements, but I could be wrong. If that was not the case than MacInnis was rob.

[krynski]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Fleury is not a polarizing figure for Calgarians in general just for a bunch of fanatics on CP.
Let’s keep it in perspective, posters here are not your average fans.
Overwhelming majority of casual fans that have seen Theo play would lover to have his number retired.

As for krynski, what actions do you want to hold Fleury accountable for?

Lots of comments Fleury made about Flames organization were accurate.
Flames have a long history of antagonizing former players, nickle and diming them, etc.

If drugs and drinking should be a barrier to having his number retired then lets remove Vernon’s. Hard to believe this guy got his number retired.

1) His behaviour. I'm not going to compile a list, there are 7 pages in this thread and I'm sure it was covered at one point or another.

2)Nickle and diming? Don't forget that Calgary almost lost the Flames not that long ago. The Flames could not afford more than they offered (that's different as of late, lots of players take great discounts nowadays for little reason). Hockey has grown considerably since the franchise struggled with finances.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by krynski

Oh heck no. You can't hold someone else accountable for your own actions. That's ridiculous. Should someone cheap on their partner because their partner cheated on them? Should the Columbine shooter should have a clean slate because society treated him like crap? Does a terrorist get an excuse because he was heavily indoctrinated?

At some point, you have to do some self reflection and ask yourself if you are doing the right thing. I'm not saying that one can't make mistakes, but one should do something to at least acknowledge that they did the wrong thing and the only person at fault is himself.

Did Fleury not do that? Maybe it was after the game had passed him buy, but he has gotten clean and does many charitable things.

[moon]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I did not have a problem with what Fleury said about Conroy and the Flames at the time. He was pretty bang on with his comments. Conroy should not have been on the team and seemed to be picked to fit the "country club atmosphere". At least Fleury would have had some passion on the ice and in the locker room.

Conroy should have been on the team over Fleury.

Sure he may have been some passion but it likely would have been after he was on the ice for another goal against. He was brutal in those pre-season games and way out of his league against AHL/ECHL guys.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by moon

Conroy should have been on the team over Fleury.

Sure he may have been some passion but it likely would have been after he was on the ice for another goal against. He was brutal in those pre-season games and way out of his league against AHL/ECHL guys.

I don't think either should have been on the team. I would have taken Fleury over Conroy because he might have been able to stir up some emotion on and off the ice.

[theoforever]

I watched Fleury for years never had a problem with his behavior on ice, never!

What he did in his private life I don't care.

Odds are the man did more charity than you.
He paid for his transgressions.

In fact if anything he has become an inspiration for many.
You know, for people that didn’t have everything handed to them and had to fight against all odds.
Those people whose life took a wrong turn but somehow found a way out.

[krynski]

Originally Posted by moon

Conroy should have been on the team over Fleury.

Sure he may have been some passion but it likely would have been after he was on the ice for another goal against. He was brutal in those pre-season games and way out of his league against AHL/ECHL guys.

I was at the game he scored and assisted; it was really fantastic. Definitely one of my favorite games I have attended.

IIRC, he played minimal minutes and he was slow. However, it was really nice to see him play.

EDIT: also, conroy was a far better match for the team than he was.