Alberta Flood Watch 2013

[Ironhorse]

Perhaps only the basement?

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Can someone explain this to me, if the province is paying ~$120/sqft, a typical 1800sqft house if going to get over $215,000? Seems super high, or am I misunderstanding the way this works.

A typical 1800 sqft bungalow would have about an 800-900sqft basement.

So homes that had both main floor and basement damage (like some in Mission or High River) would qualify for that amount, but most of the effected homes would have only half.

[Bigtime]

So after all the hoopla my reaction to the guidelines is "that's it?".

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

So after all the hoopla my reaction to the guidelines is "that's it?".

Well...it does open up a few questions for me. Namely, I am not too sure on this whole backflow valve, concrete walls, metal studs, metal doors, rewriting the house thing. That is going to cost way more than $10K, plus I am not overly sure I want my basement to have that dungeon feel that only metal and concrete can bring. Seeing as a shut off to the sewer would have saved the inside of my home, I doubt many of these changes are necessary for my house.

Maybe we should have a chat on this and you can explain your interpretation of this. Maybe it is not what I think it is....I really hope so.

[ken0042]

If shutting off the sewer would have saved your home, wouldn't a backflow valve have also saved it?

[woob]

Originally Posted by kevman

Has anyone had an indoor air quality test performed? How much did it cost and were you happy with your contractor? I've been calling around for quotes and they all seem to be in the $700-$1,000 range. This seems high to me but perhaps it's the going rate?

I had one done when we purchased our place back in May. I wanted one done as there had been some flooding in the basement as well as a faulty overflow drain on the tub which previously caused leaking into the family room. I was looking to ensure there wasn't any major mold hiding anywhere.

The cost for basement, main, and upper level tests was $500, but it may have been that price due to us already using the same company for a home inspection.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by ken0042

If shutting off the sewer would have saved your home, wouldn't a backflow valve have also saved it?

I know I was in a basement about half a block from his place, and they had a backflow valve that didn't.

I am not sure if it wasn't installed properly, or it failed for some other reason, but from what they said it was a common problem for their neighbours.

[BlackArcher101]

Backflow valves aren't the end-all be-all of preventing sewer backup. Like all valves, they should be cleaned/maintained to ensure they will close when required. As well, over pressure if the house is in a low area and from a large rain surge is still possible.

Here's a great slideshow I found on the City of Edmonton page. http://www.edmonton.ca/for_residents...rValvesPre.pdf

Interestingly, they also have a flood prevention page. http://www.edmonton.ca/for_residents...n-program.aspx If only Calgary did the same after 2005.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Backflow valves aren't the end-all be-all of preventing sewer backup. Like all valves, they should be cleaned/maintained to ensure they will close when required. As well, over pressure if the house is in a low area and from a large rain surge is still possible.

The bold part is what worries me. So I go and install one of these valves and it works flawlessly. But if the city infrastructure fails again and our street and back lane become a lake I will have a lot of pressure pushing on my dry basement. Greatly increasing the chance my foundation shifts or worse right?

Frankly I'd rather have my basement flood again to equalize the pressure in that situation.

[ken0042]

How much pressure could the water be under without some sort of mechanical means? Really if it's under 15 feet of water that would be 1.5 times the pressure. And the water would just find another weak spot in the system.

I'm just thinking back to when we did the bathroom in my basement, and my plumber insisted I install one of these. (My cousin, so he wasn't getting paid for the work.) I just don't see how it could fail catostophically; meaning it would either help a lot, or worst case be the same as if it wasn't there.

Now, I did hear of somebody who pumped out their basement too early and the water pressure on the foundation walls pushed them in. Not sure if that was true or just an urban legend.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Now, I did hear of somebody who pumped out their basement too early and the water pressure on the foundation walls pushed them in. Not sure if that was true or just an urban legend.

Yes that one floated down my block as well, it was all ways "The guy on the other street". No one found the guy, or saw it, always heard it from someone else.

On back flow valve, the neighbors got 8 feet and I only got 4. I have no back flow but they did, and their house is under a year old. Maybe it wasn't installed correctly? Not sure.

My question, if a back flow can get overwhelmed, and all that sewer backup in Sunnyside I think will do it, is there another way?

For example, has anyone heard of a manual shut off for your sewer and sanitary? Like a wheel you turn, that will cause a complete and solid shut off to the street. That is what I am looking for. If I can cut off the flow of sewer manually, and lock it tight, I am hoping that will be enough.

Then maybe I can augment it with a Sump Backup to pump out my windows.

I am wondering if it can be done, in an approved way. Has anyone heard of such a device? I think a passive back flow is too prone to failure, and a hard switch off would be way better.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I know I was in a basement about half a block from his place, and they had a backflow valve that didn't.

I am not sure if it wasn't installed properly, or it failed for some other reason, but from what they said it was a common problem for their neighbours.

The sewer water came up through the toliet and the bath tub first before it came up in my floor drain. I was told if the water pressure is too high the valve won't work.

[Dion]

It ticks me off that we have heard nothing from the PC govt as to what kind of flood protection they are going to do for the city of Calgary and Alberta towns that were hit by the flood. It seems as if they are putting all the responsibility on the homeowners which is wrong. Doing a flood diversion and other measures will help to prevent future floods and minimise any future damage. Add to that future tax dollars going to help people and businesses rebuild.

My home and my town has a flood label attached to it making it an undersirable place to live or buy a home. My property value has gone way down too and being in a flood fringe makes it unsellable. The downtown business area is like a ghost town and I suspect many will not rebuild if there is no assurance from the town and govt that flood diversions and dredging of the river will take place. I know a few business owners and they are not happy with the town and the province.

[chemgear]

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/council-ea...very-1.1389247

On Monday afternoon, by a vote of 9-5, council decided the $52 million will be used in 2013 to pay for flood related costs.

Councillors who voted for:

• Mayor Nenshi
• Gord Lowe
• Jim Stevenson
• Gael MacLeod
• Richard Pootmans
• Druh Farrell
• John Mar
• Gian-Carlo Carra
• Brian Pincott

Councillors who voted against:

• Dianne Colley-Urquhart
• Peter Demong
• Shane Keating
• Andre Chabot
• Roy Jones

Ward 1 Councillor Dale Hodges was not present at the time of the vote.

The city manager predicts the total cost of flood damage to City of Calgary property could reach $500 million.

[JiriHrdina]

I'm for the most part OK with that, but I'd like now for there to be some specificity around what costs it will be used for.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

On back flow valve, the neighbors got 8 feet and I only got 4. I have no back flow but they did, and their house is under a year old. Maybe it wasn't installed correctly? Not sure.

My question, if a back flow can get overwhelmed, and all that sewer backup in Sunnyside I think will do it, is there another way?

The best picture I can find online is this one:


As you can see the waste water going out keeps the valve open, and then if you try to reverse the flow the flap gets pushed back and closes the system. At that point all I could see increased pressure doing is pushing hard to keep it shut.

Is it possible your neighbours had overland flooding? That was the one thing I was thinking of when we were talking about these vavles before; if you have one installed and you flood; does that not prove to your insurance company that it was not sewer backup? Meaning you'd be out of luck on a claim?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Dion

The sewer water came up through the toliet and the bath tub first before it came up in my floor drain. I was told if the water pressure is too high the valve won't work.

The backflow preventer should be installed after the last tie in. So if it fails it should all fail.

I don't see how high water pressure should cause the valve to fail as the valve seat should be designed for the pressures it would face. And as soon as the differential pressure across the face of the valve is negative the valve should close. These are also fairly idiot proof devices so incorrect installation should not be an issue.

The only thing I can think of is sewage build up around the flapper or ball causes it to be stuck in the open position.

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by chemgear

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/council-ea...very-1.1389247

On Monday afternoon, by a vote of 9-5, council decided the $52 million will be used in 2013 to pay for flood related costs.
....[/LIST]Councillors who voted against:

• Dianne Colley-Urquhart
• Peter Demong
• Shane Keating
• Andre Chabot
• Roy Jones

Ward 1 Councillor Dale Hodges was not present at the time of the vote.

The city manager predicts the total cost of flood damage to City of Calgary property could reach $500 million.

Of course she did. "Big Red" is the epitome of shortsighted NIMBYism, any chance she has to grand stand on something that'll save her constituents (sadly of which I'm one) a penny or two she's gonna do. Maybe she could go back to chasing down low income Calgarians selling their bus passes for an extra $10-20 a month.

God I hope she chooses to run against Nenshi this fall, just so she get's thrown out and put an end to her pointless & misguided grandstanding.

/rant

[Slava]

Originally Posted by chemgear

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/council-ea...very-1.1389247

On Monday afternoon, by a vote of 9-5, council decided the $52 million will be used in 2013 to pay for flood related costs.

Councillors who voted for:

• Mayor Nenshi
• Gord Lowe
• Jim Stevenson
• Gael MacLeod
• Richard Pootmans
• Druh Farrell
• John Mar
• Gian-Carlo Carra
• Brian Pincott

Councillors who voted against:

• Dianne Colley-Urquhart
• Peter Demong
• Shane Keating
• Andre Chabot
• Roy Jones

Ward 1 Councillor Dale Hodges was not present at the time of the vote.

The city manager predicts the total cost of flood damage to City of Calgary property could reach $500 million.

Why did Hodges skip the vote? This seems like a pretty significant vote to miss.

Anyway, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I would like to know how much of the potential $500M is insured. I would hazard a guess that its more than the vast majority. Then you add in the provincial and federal funds and how much is left over?

I hate to agree with both Bell and DCU, but that money was never the cities money to begin with and should've been given back. The flood just provided a convenient excuse, but quite frankly this is very concerning because its tantamount to theft. The money was overpaid, and rather than do the right thing we have a group of politicians here who found a politically appealing way not to return it to its rightful owners.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Slava

Why did Hodges skip the vote? This seems like a pretty significant vote to miss.

Anyway, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I would like to know how much of the potential $500M is insured. I would hazard a guess that its more than the vast majority. Then you add in the provincial and federal funds and how much is left over?

I hate to agree with both Bell and DCU, but that money was never the cities money to begin with and should've been given back. The flood just provided a convenient excuse, but quite frankly this is very concerning because its tantamount to theft. The money was overpaid, and rather than do the right thing we have a group of politicians here who found a politically appealing way not to return it to its rightful owners.

Its more than an excuse. If you truely believe it's an excuse to keep the money there's probably not much to debate with you. Between the start of the debate on this topic and now a massive disaster happened here, the biggest in the city's history and maybe the biggest in the history of the Country, the landscape has changed. The City alone has 1/4B and counting in damage, so they'd just ask for the money back next year and then some. Further, I can think of 1/2B to a B in future mitigation that could be evaluated that the province nor the feds have discusssed. Calgary has a ton of flood related expenses going forward, they'll rip through that 50M in a heartbeat.