The "Metropolitan" Division???

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Unless the NHL is run totally by somehow very rich incompetent people we should be expecting the divisions even out eventually. I think a Pacific Northwest team expansion makes sense, probably making Seattle a front runner. And another team in the central, maybe bring back the Scouts. Kansas City does have a relatively new arena that was looking like a possible, if only slightly, home for the Penguins a couple years back.

However, Quebec is building a $500M hockey arena. They'll be getting a team. Which is even more peculiar as it would obviously be in the East. I would love the NHL to give Quebec a team and move Detroit back to the central just as a big "f you" but I have a feeling that wasn't their plan. So I wouldn't be a bit surprised at all to see an East team relocate to Quebec. The Islanders are moving to Brooklyn, they're safe, but that's also an hour closer to New Jersey...who are in financial trouble. It's probably just a case of New Jersey eventually being sold and staying put, but it could make some sense to relocate them to Quebec (or to complete the circle, move them to Kansas City where they started and give Quebec a new team) and hope some of the Devil fanbase between Jersey and Brooklyn latch onto the Islanders.

Or maybe there's a reason that division is already split with the 2 teams in Florida...

If I was a betting man, that would be my horse. Seattle, Kansas City, Quebec and 1 team in the East gone with Phoenix still in a bit of a limbo.

NJ isn't going anywhere. Their financial issues are issues with the financial state of ownership, largely due to the way they financed arena construction, not issues with the market. The NHL isn't moving a team with a state of the art building in the country's largest market.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by valo403

NJ isn't going anywhere. Their financial issues are issues with the financial state of ownership, largely due to the way they financed arena construction, not issues with the market. The NHL isn't moving a team with a state of the art building in the country's largest market.

You're right. There's a lot keeping the Devils in Newark, including their lease. But I don't know if the market is high on that totem pole. This is a team that even after winning the Stanley Cup was struggling to reach 15,000 on any given night. Shortened season and Stanley Cup finals helped their attendance this year, but now they're entering an era without Parise, without, Kovalchuk, soon to be without Brodeur and without their 1st round pick. Throw in a reported quarter of a billion worth of debt and whoever the supposed buyer is must have some form of contingency plan. I haven't followed it closely at all but the Devils have been one of the most successful teams over the last 25 years. 3 Stanley Cups, 2 Stanley Cup Finals, missing the playoffs only 4 times. Still only getting 15,000 people to show up? Any type of drought looks like it could be devastating.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

You're right. There's a lot keeping the Devils in Newark, including their lease. But I don't know if the market is high on that totem pole. This is a team that even after winning the Stanley Cup was struggling to reach 15,000 on any given night. Shortened season and Stanley Cup finals helped their attendance this year, but now they're entering an era without Parise, without, Kovalchuk, soon to be without Brodeur and without their 1st round pick. Throw in a reported quarter of a billion worth of debt and whoever the supposed buyer is must have some form of contingency plan. I haven't followed it closely at all but the Devils have been one of the most successful teams over the last 25 years. 3 Stanley Cups, 2 Stanley Cup Finals, missing the playoffs only 4 times. Still only getting 15,000 people to show up? Any type of drought looks like it could be devastating.

Attendance dips everywhere when teams struggle, it won't be any different in New Jersey. The old arena was a dump nobody wanted to travel to, and the new one is in an area that people seem to be taking a while to warm up to. Overall attendance isn't great, but it's not that bad and there's a pretty solid corporate base in place.

Bottom line is they aren't going anywhere. That's a market that should be an easy money maker, it's just been bungled repeatedly. If people are willing to own teams in places like Seattle, Kansas City and Portland they'll be willing t own one in New Jersey. I fail to see a single factor that would make any of those cities more desirable.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by valo403

Attendance dips everywhere when teams struggle, it won't be any different in New Jersey. The old arena was a dump nobody wanted to travel to, and the new one is in an area that people seem to be taking a while to warm up to. Overall attendance isn't great, but it's not that bad and there's a pretty solid corporate base in place.

Up until this season, where attendance was up across the board because of the shorten season, they haven't fluctuated all that much. Staying around the 15,000 mark. And they won the Cup in 2000, lost in finals in 2001 and won again 2003, it's not like they haven't been good. Yet even those seasons and the seasons after they were struggling to hit that 15,000. The new arena is nice, but it's like 10 minute difference, isn't it? And that could be 10 minute extra. If they haven't been able to find a huge market place when they've literally been one of the best teams over the last couple decades, why will they start now? I wont bet against Lou but things don't look especially hopeful for the team on the ice right now.

You're right that those other markets don't really offer much more, other than maybe Quebec, but I don't think the Devils market is good at all. A little drought and they become the next Thrashers/Coyotes/Islanders/Penguins with relocation speculation all the time in my opinion.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Up until this season, where attendance was up across the board because of the shorten season, they haven't fluctuated all that much. Staying around the 15,000 mark. And they won the Cup in 2000, lost in finals in 2001 and won again 2003, it's not like they haven't been good. Yet even those seasons and the seasons after they were struggling to hit that 15,000. The new arena is nice, but it's like 10 minute difference, isn't it? And that could be 10 minute extra. If they haven't been able to find a huge market place when they've literally been one of the best teams over the last couple decades, why will they start now? I wont bet against Lou but things don't look especially hopeful for the team on the ice right now.

You're right that those other markets don't really offer much more, other than maybe Quebec, but I don't think the Devils market is good at all. A little drought and they become the next Thrashers/Coyotes/Islanders/Penguins with relocation speculation all the time in my opinion.

Well I was talking about what will happen if they're bad, but okay.

Did you just group Pittsburgh and Long Island in with Atlanta and Phoenix? What do those markets/organizations have even remotely in common? Atlanta had no interested ownership group, Phoenix has had pretty much every issue you can imagine, but neither have ever had the issue that caused any relocation talk to circle around the Islanders and Penguins, the lack of a building. The situations couldn't possibly be more different.

For the Devils to relocate there has to be somewhere more desirable to place a team, and you just admitted that none of those markets offer more. I see very little desire from the league to enter Quebec through anything other than a large expansion fee, so that leaves an assortment of random US destinations. So why would an ownership group move the team to one of those markets? Market strength is relative, NJ isn't the best market in the league but it sure as heck beats out a completely untested market with little to no history of supporting hockey.

[Daradon]

Just came by to say