2013 Toronto Blue Jays thread

[flames_fan_down_under]

Couldn't agree more with you Moon. The work he does with charities is admirable and his media accessibility is good but that's not what the issue is. The issue is his own perceived level of success as a baseball player vs the harsh reality that he is a backup catcher at best and the media calling a spade a spade.

Also it's not his twitter account that getting him grief it's his big mouth.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

How embarrassing.

That's a kind compliment considering how this season has gone for the organization. The organization needs to do a complete house cleaning from top to bottom as the only way they could get worse is to call themselves the Raptors.

[bomber317]

I wonder what difference it would have made if Farrell was still here managing. Boston appears to be completely different from last year's team.

[moon]

Originally Posted by bomber317

I wonder what difference it would have made if Farrell was still here managing. Boston appears to be completely different from last year's team.

Probably not much. The issue is talent/players not managing. Put La Russa/Torre/McGraw in as manager and at best this team has 3-4 more wins and is still in last place.

[KelVarnsen]

Boston got better by firing Bobby V.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by bomber317

I wonder what difference it would have made if Farrell was still here managing. Boston appears to be completely different from last year's team.

Hard to say because Farrell's heart wasn't with the Blue Jays but Gibbons was a bad hire and has played a role in this failure. IMO the Gibbons hiring should be the final nail in Anthopoulos's coffin. There's simply no excuse for such a hyped season turning into one of the worst Jays teams of all time.

Anthopoulos made all these big offseason moves which created hype and excitement across the country which is something this organization badly needed and then he reached back to hire a guy that has already been fired from the same position within the organization which historically has never worked in any sport. It never worked with Gaston and it crashed and burned this season with Gibbons. That said this isn't all on Gibbons as the players have been bad but it's not out of the question that a different manager would have done some things differently and got more out of some of the players.

Now fans are going to have a 'fool me once....' stance with this organization and all the good will and excitement is now gone. Next season will go back to a large portion of fans simply not caring which is exactly what the organization could not afford after finally generating some excitement in the market. If I'm Rogers how can I have faith in a man that miscalculated so badly this season?

[tempz]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

jp arencibia ‏@jparencibia9 5m
It's unfortunate to see how words are twisted to make false stories. I give way too much of myself to have others try and make me out to.
jp arencibia ‏@jparencibia9 2m
Something/someone I'm not. Solution. I make myself very accessible with constant charitable events, and opening up to social media for the
jp arencibia ‏@jparencibia9 3m
for the fans. I will no longer be on twitter. Thanks to all the fans who support and praying for the others that hate. God Bless.

JP 3/5 last night with only one strikeout. I liked his approach a lot more it seemed more calculated and less swing for the fences. He needs to realize that as a professional athlete performing is the only way to shutup your critics. All the charity work and accessibility means nothing if you aren't getting the job done. In fact it can be contrived as a possible distraction even. In that regard I'm glad he has stepped away from twitter. Brett Lawrie should follow suit.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Hard to say because Farrell's heart wasn't with the Blue Jays but Gibbons was a bad hire and has played a role in this failure. IMO the Gibbons hiring should be the final nail in Anthopoulos's coffin. There's simply no excuse for such a hyped season turning into one of the worst Jays teams of all time.

Anthopoulos made all these big offseason moves which created hype and excitement across the country which is something this organization badly needed and then he reached back to hire a guy that has already been fired from the same position within the organization which historically has never worked in any sport. It never worked with Gaston and it crashed and burned this season with Gibbons. That said this isn't all on Gibbons as the players have been bad but it's not out of the question that a different manager would have done some things differently and got more out of some of the players.

Now fans are going to have a 'fool me once....' stance with this organization and all the good will and excitement is now gone. Next season will go back to a large portion of fans simply not caring which is exactly what the organization could not afford after finally generating some excitement in the market. If I'm Rogers how can I have faith in a man that miscalculated so badly this season?

What would be different with another manager? The offense has been fine (7th in runs scored in spite of all the injuries). The bullpen even missing Santos has been one of the best in the league and is extremely well managed. The only issue with the Jays is starting pitching and it's ridiculous to put that on the manager. R.A. Dickey has the best ERA of the starting 5 to begin the season with a 4.75 ERA. I really don't see what Gibbons can do given how all of his starters have been injured (especially on a team that has zero starting depth in the high minors) and not produced after their return.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

That's a kind compliment considering how this season has gone for the organization. The organization needs to do a complete house cleaning from top to bottom as the only way they could get worse is to call themselves the Raptors.

I would argue that some stability is required. I think the risk is you become one of the organization (like the Raptors) that strip it all down every few years and never make actual headway.

"house cleaning" is just too easy an answer with very little track record of actually working.

[tempz]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Man I wish we still had D'Arnaud.

Mixed feelings for me. 24 yr old catching prospect who's already missed extensive time from Knee / Back / Foot problems is definitely a concern no matter how much talent they have. Until he can stay healthy for a season I consider him a bandaid and think we probably were smart to move him.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by JayP

What would be different with another manager? The offense has been fine (7th in runs scored in spite of all the injuries). The bullpen even missing Santos has been one of the best in the league and is extremely well managed. The only issue with the Jays is starting pitching and it's ridiculous to put that on the manager. R.A. Dickey has the best ERA of the starting 5 to begin the season with a 4.75 ERA. I really don't see what Gibbons can do given how all of his starters have been injured (especially on a team that has zero starting depth in the high minors) and not produced after their return.

The thing that baffles me, is that the teams record with Jose Reyes in the lineup, is absolutely awful. Yet Reyes as an individulal would seem to add a lot of elements that should help the team. Plus defender, great speed, solid OBP, and OPS numbers...yet as soon as he returned to the lineup the teams record went into the tank. Part of it is better competition they have faced since he returned, but still, it shouldn't be this drastic. I can't figure out why.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

The thing that baffles me, is that the teams record with Jose Reyes in the lineup, is absolutely awful. Yet Reyes as an individulal would seem to add a lot of elements that should help the team. Plus defender, great speed, solid OBP, and OPS numbers...yet as soon as he returned to the lineup the teams record went into the tank. Part of it is better competition they have faced since he returned, but still, it shouldn't be this drastic. I can't figure out why.

....because as good as Reyes is, he is unable to give us 7 quality innings of starting pitching where the opposition doesn't put up 4+ runs?

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

....because as good as Reyes is, he is unable to give us 7 quality innings of starting pitching where the opposition doesn't put up 4+ runs?

This.

I haven't looked at the numbers, but the team still seems to have no problems scoring runs with Reyes in the line-up. The difference is during the win streak the pitching staff was piecing together strings of very good starts and now they're getting hit around the park.

It's been a tough season, but there's way too much over-reaction. If there was one area that was easy to see a problem going into the season it was starting pitching depth. The Jays had 6 guys in the entire organization capable of even making a spot start going into the year - Dickey, Morrow, Johnson, Buerhle, Romero, Happ. After that, the cupboards in the high minors were bare. You combine that with Romero completely imploding and every other starting pitcher aside from Buerhle getting injured with-in the first month of the year and your season is basically lost. When injuries add up like that you get guys like Dickey pitching through injuries or coming back too early instead of healing up and the performance predictably suffers. Johnson and Morrow clearly came back into the rotation way too early. It was a gamble going into the season without much depth in the rotation, but even in spite of that there's not a lot of teams that can survive what's happened to the Jays rotation this year.

[nik-]

Yeah, unfortunately this season has to be treated as a mulligan. Way too early to replace AA.

[bluejays]

Replace AA? The Jays finally have a homegrown talent who thinks like no other GM and somebody even considered the thought of replacing him? Give him a 5 year extension. This was an odd year that nobody can really place on where it went wrong. Management, IMO, certainly was not a problem.

[moon]

Thinks like no other GM?

I thought the overrating of AA might go down a bit now that we have seen his results but apparently not.

[Caged Great]

They should move secondary pieces like Lind, Delabar, Cecil, Janssen etc.

[tempz]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

They should move secondary pieces like Lind, Delabar, Cecil, Janssen etc.

The guys who have been doing their jobs?

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by tempz

The guys who have been doing their jobs?

Pretty much. You won't get anything for the useless guys on our roster currently. looking at what K-Rod got, you should be able to get something nearly equivalent for two current all stars + closer and Lind.

Relievers are nearly irrelevant, especially considering the depth we have of high K guys in the system. So if we can recoup some of the depth lost in the bungled trades this season, then it's all good.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I would argue that some stability is required. I think the risk is you become one of the organization (like the Raptors) that strip it all down every few years and never make actual headway.

"house cleaning" is just too easy an answer with very little track record of actually working.

I don't know if the Raptors are a good example. Colangelo had 7 years and the Raptors are paying the price now for not firing him at least three years ago.

AA will probably survive this season but he should be on thin ice as this season was much more costly than just the losing record. The organization generated hype and excitement for the first time in over a decade and not only is that gone, it got thoroughly crushed leaving fan apathy now at an all time high.