[Signing] Flames sign Byron and Bouma

[#-3]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Typically when bubble NHLers reject a QO it is because the QO is a 2 way contract and the player wants a 1 way.

Pure speculation but Bancks may also want to explore opportunities with other organizations.

IMO Bancks would have 2 legit reasons the reject his QO. Either he wants to work on the AHL salary because he knows that is what he will be getting paid, or he wants to work on the term, taking even less money for more term (to make sure one sub-par season doesn't completely kill his hockey career at this point in time).

[GreenLantern]

Last year was a right off for Bouwma, injury problems are always lame.. but he will bounce back. Looking forward to seeing him on the roster with all the other young guys.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Tough to say. Last year was probably the best shot for either 2 to play a lot of games in the NHL and both got injured.

Byron 2 years ago was a little spark plug when he was called up and it seemed like if Feaster could have made a trade would have had Byron up with the big club for more than half the year. Last year he gets injured 2 games in and i personaly think that he could have been the spark plug again in Hartley's system. He will be a call up player this year, but instead of being first choice he is probably 2-3rd choice.

Not sure how Bouma's injury is going? He probably would have made the team last year, if not would have played a bunch of games as a call-up. He is going to have to be fully healed, and not miss a beat, to make it this year.

So much of making the NHL depends on timing, opportunity and confidence. Byron, Bouma and many previous prospects (now considered busts) missed their best chances to shine. Now it's a much harder road.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by New Era

I would have agreed with you a year ago, but that lost year of play is going to hurt his chances. Not only did Bouma lose that year of development it allowed other players to chance to develop and surpass him on the depth chart. It is going to make camp interesting. Bouma will have to prove that he is still capable of being a 4th liner in the NHL and that it is better to give him the position over another player who has a much higher ceiling, like Horak or Reinhart, who would benefit more from playing in the NHL than in the AHL. Also, the additions of Granlund, Knight and Hanowski may force a Bouma off the team and back to the minors. Losing last year was very unfortunate for Bouma because it was his chance to solidify his spot as a roster player. Now he's got more guys to compete with, many of which have way more talent.

I believe this is his last chance with the Flames. They have just too many players coming in that will make Bouma expendable. Next year will be worse when they add Agostino, Arnold and possibly Gaudreau to the mix. Too many bodies and not enough slots. Unless there is some serious movement on the roster takes place I don't know where Bouma plays or whose spot he takes away.

Disagree. Horak is competing for a 2nd/3rd line role, not a 4th line role. Reinhart is competing for a 3rd/4th line centre role, Bouma for a winger role IMO. Same with Granlund and Knight who are both centres. Bouma and Hanowski aren't very comparable either although they are perhaps the closest in style amongst your comparisons.

None of the prospects you mentioned are 4th line grinders like Bouma is and thus aren't really competing for the same type of role with the Flames. Bouma is basically a younger version of Jackman. We don't want guys who have higher upsides to be stuck on the 4th line so I don't think they are directly competing. 2nd/3rd line players don't push 4th liners off the team, they push other 2nd/3rd liners off the team that is what you don't seem to be acknowledging. Bouma is competing with guys like Jackman, McGrattan, and a guy like Ferland in the future. Most of the guys you've mentioned have zero impact on Bouma's fight for a 4th line grinding role.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Disagree. Horak is competing for a 2nd/3rd line role, not a 4th line role. Reinhart is competing for a 3rd/4th line centre role, Bouma for a winger role IMO. Same with Granlund and Knight who are both centres. Bouma and Hanowski aren't very comparable either although they are perhaps the closest in style amongst your comparisons.

None of the prospects you mentioned are 4th line grinders like Bouma is and thus aren't really competing for the same type of role with the Flames. Bouma is basically a younger version of Jackman. We don't want guys who have higher upsides to be stuck on the 4th line so I don't think they are directly competing. 2nd/3rd line players don't push 4th liners off the team, they push other 2nd/3rd liners off the team that is what you don't seem to be acknowledging. Bouma is competing with guys like Jackman, McGrattan, and a guy like Ferland in the future. Most of the guys you've mentioned have zero impact on Bouma's fight for a 4th line grinding role.

I think you are missing a very important facet of the development game. I seriously doubt that the Feaster and company are going to look at the lineup and think they are bringing in certain players to play in certain slots, like Bouma on the 4th line. I think they are looking at the lineup and bringing in players that can play in many different roles, which again, hurts Bouma. I think they come to camp and have all positions open. If a player like Horak steps up proves to be worthy or a position, they will bump a veteran down the lineup. If a player like Granlund comes in an shows he can contribute on the wing the team will make room for him by bumping a player down the lineup. This is how you build a good team with depth. Better options push talent down the lineup, not the other way around. I suspect that this is exactly what is going to happen. I see a guy like Jones or Galiardi possibly finding themselves on the 4th line as the team accommodates a couple of young players. For Bouma to make this team he is going to have to not only beat out Jackman for a job, he's going to have to hope the other rookies don't step up and beat out a veteran that will push some talent down the lineup. I don't see either happening to be honest with you. That year away from the game is going to be big to recover from and he's going to have to prove all over that he's better than some of the younger guys coming in. I would really like to know what your lineup looks like that sees Bouma making the club?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by New Era

I would really like to know what your lineup looks like that sees Bouma making the club?

Glencross-Backlund-Hudler
Baertschi-Stajan/Horak-D. Jones
Cammalleri-Knight/Horak-Stempniak
Bouma-Galiardi-Jackman
McGrattan

Something along those lines you can switch around the wingers on the top 2-3 lines to your liking. There will probably be an injury in there somewhere during camp. I think Reinhart will probably start the year in the AHL, he needs to gain offensive confidence at the pro level. Knight is more NHL ready than Reinhart IMO. Stajan could be moved to make room for guys like Knight, Horak, and Monahan. B. Jones is almost guaranteed to lose his spot.

Originally Posted by New Era

I seriously doubt that the Feaster and company are going to look at the lineup and think they are bringing in certain players to play in certain slots, like Bouma on the 4th line.

Not sure why you doubt that. The 4th line is usually composed of grinding, physical, speedy, role players. Under Feaster's watch they've said they were looking for grit. Bouma's injury is pretty much why we signed Begin last year. They definitely had Bouma pencilled in for that spot last year. And Feaster has gone out of his way to say Bouma is still in their plans going forward. He is a prototypical 4th line grinder and one of the only young ones in our entire system.

It isn't a simple matter of other players merely pushing others down the lineup. The 4th line still has an identity and certain types of players do not fit that identity. There are a limited number of players who Bouma is competing against for that role. The wingers that make sense include Jackman, McGrattan, Galiardi and Bouma. Stempniak is too skilled for the 4th line unless we're a contender and I think D. Jones is in the same boat. Hudler, Cammalleri, Baertschi would make no sense on the 4th line due to their size and style of play.

I guess we'll agree to disagree on how Feaster and Hartley will build a lineup going forward.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Glencross-Backlund-Hudler
Baertschi-Stajan/Horak-D. Jones
Cammalleri-Knight/Horak-Stempniak
Bouma-Galiardi-Jackman
McGrattan

Something along those lines you can switch around the wingers on the top 2-3 lines to your liking.

I see a similar top nine, but I think you really had to work to get Bouma on the roster. I think we'll see a roster something more like this:

Cammalleri-Stajan-Stempniak

The UFA line. All of these guys will most likely be traded during the season so it makes sense to get them playing together, giving them as many opportunities to score and inflate their points, and increase their value as the season plays out. Probably the best mix we have for a true top line as well.

Glencross-Backlund-Hudler

A solid line that gives Backlund top six minutes and two solid veterans with scoring ability to play with. Has a good mix of skill and hustle that should be a solid second line.

Bartschi-Horak-D. Jones

Kind of like the second line but flips the small player to the opposite wing. Give Bartschi a big body to play with and Horak a couple guys that should be able to score. This line gets sheltered minutes which should allow the young guys to develop some confidence in generating offense while not having a lot of pressure to play really strong in their own end.

Galiardi-Knight-Jackman

Here's your crash and bang line. Galiardi slides into his usual wing position. I'm not sure why you would slot him in as a center except to get Bouma into the lineup? Galiardi has been a winger and is horrible in the faceoff dot. They're bringing in Knight because of his faceoff abilities, so he'll likely start on the 4th line to prove his abilities. He's one of the few guys I think may play up the roster without a trade.

B. Jones, McGrattan

These are the extras unless the team wants to give a guy like Granlund a roster spot. McGrattan is there for his fists and Jones is there because he can play up the lineup without hurting you. They may put Granlund in this slot and let him float throughout the lineup as the injury fill in. The Flames may have their hand forced in this regard because of Granlund's out clause to go back to Finland. Once he goes, he's gone for the season, so they may elect to keep him and use him as the taxi squad player. He has a lot more to offer than Bouma. Another wild card is Reinhart. He could use some time in the AHL to improve his offense, but of course that would only work if the Heat played him in an offensive role and played him with some talented players.

Knight is more NHL ready than Reinhart IMO. Stajan could be moved to make room for guys like Knight, Horak, and Monahan. B. Jones is almost guaranteed to lose his spot.

Some awfully strong statements with very little to support it. What makes Knight more NHL ready than Reinhart? Knight hasn't even taken a shift in the NHL or against NHL level players. Why is B. Jones guaranteed to lose his spot, especially to a guy that didn't play last year? I would think that Bouma is going to have to prove that he can still play after his lost year. What good will he had built up may still be there but he's still going to have to prove he can play at the NHL level. If this team is really a developing meritocracy then Bouma has to earn his spot over guys who played last year.

Not sure why you doubt that. The 4th line is usually composed of grinding, physical, speedy, role players. Under Feaster's watch they've said they were looking for grit. Bouma's injury is pretty much why we signed Begin last year. They definitely had Bouma pencilled in for that spot last year. And Feaster has gone out of his way to say Bouma is still in their plans going forward. He is a prototypical 4th line grinder and one of the only young ones in our entire system.

Well, there is Hanowski and Ferland as options as well. Bouma is probably the closest of the bunch, but his year away from the game could be a killer. He could already be well down the depth chart before camp opens up solely on the fact that he didn't play last season.

It isn't a simple matter of other players merely pushing others down the lineup. The 4th line still has an identity and certain types of players do not fit that identity. There are a limited number of players who Bouma is competing against for that role. The wingers that make sense include Jackman, McGrattan, Galiardi and Bouma. Stempniak is too skilled for the 4th line unless we're a contender and I think D. Jones is in the same boat. Hudler, Cammalleri, Baertschi would make no sense on the 4th line due to their size and style of play.

I look at Galiardi, Jones, Jones, Jackman, Hanowski and Ferland as all viable options for the 4th line and could see them being pushed down to that level if certain players step up in training camp and we have a couple good surprises. I'm not discounting Granlund and Reinhart from being players who make pushes in camp and force some moves.

I guess we'll agree to disagree on how Feaster and Hartley will build a lineup going forward.

We're allowed to. I think this board would be awfully boring if we all agreed on everything.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

I don't see Byron as having any real future in the NHL. If he is really valued in Abbotsford, and the only way to keep him is to offer him an NHL contract, then so be it.

But I wouldnt expect to see too many other teams luring him away by offering him NHL contracts.

He's got speed, real NHL speed. But I don't see much else from him at this level.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by New Era

I see a similar top nine, but I think you really had to work to get Bouma on the roster. I think we'll see a roster something more like this:

Cammalleri-Stajan-Stempniak

Glencross-Backlund-Hudler

Baertschi-Horak-D. Jones

Galiardi-Knight-McGrattan


B. Jones, Jackman

Honestly the only thing I would change is McGrattan going in over Jackman because he's been more effective in games, and not just fighting, than Jackman. Hard to see Galiardi on the 4th line but I guess part of that problem is having the ability for players to step up in various roles and not look out of it.

Who knows? Maybe injuries became a 'good' thing this year.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by New Era

Here's your crash and bang line. Galiardi slides into his usual wing position. I'm not sure why you would slot him in as a center except to get Bouma into the lineup? Galiardi has been a winger and is horrible in the faceoff dot. They're bringing in Knight because of his faceoff abilities, so he'll likely start on the 4th line to prove his abilities. He's one of the few guys I think may play up the roster without a trade.

After the Flames acquired him they talked a bit about him being able to play centre. I'd have him on the wing by default as well. Knight can centre the 4th line. Bouma has actually seen some time at centre as well. Some of the positions in my lineup were interchangeable. I just think those are the 14-15 forwards most likely to make the big squad.

Originally Posted by New Era

These are the extras unless the team wants to give a guy like Granlund a roster spot. McGrattan is there for his fists and Jones is there because he can play up the lineup without hurting you. They may put Granlund in this slot and let him float throughout the lineup as the injury fill in. The Flames may have their hand forced in this regard because of Granlund's out clause to go back to Finland. Once he goes, he's gone for the season, so they may elect to keep him and use him as the taxi squad player. He has a lot more to offer than Bouma. Another wild card is Reinhart. He could use some time in the AHL to improve his offense, but of course that would only work if the Heat played him in an offensive role and played him with some talented players.

Granlund doesn't have a lot more to offer than Bouma on the 4th line because he's not a grinder. He's a top 3 line player or you send him to the minors or Finland. I'd be surprised if he made the team from what I've seen of him thus far.

Originally Posted by New Era

Some awfully strong statements with very little to support it. What makes Knight more NHL ready than Reinhart? Knight hasn't even taken a shift in the NHL or against NHL level players. Why is B. Jones guaranteed to lose his spot, especially to a guy that didn't play last year? I would think that Bouma is going to have to prove that he can still play after his lost year. What good will he had built up may still be there but he's still going to have to prove he can play at the NHL level. If this team is really a developing meritocracy then Bouma has to earn his spot over guys who played last year.

Knight is older and more mature than Reinhart. He's also offensively dominated the last level he played at. Reinhart started in the AHL on the checking lines and was snakebitten offensively. Later in the season he moved up as the Flames recalled many Heat players once the NHL season finally started. Knight is dominant on faceoffs which is a huge need for the Flames. He also has size and strength at centre which is a huge need for the Flames. So I think he's a natural fit to be our 3rd or 4th line centre to start the season. He also looked good at the development camp and was a pleasant surprise according to Weisbrod.

Blair Jones is likely to lose his spot because it's clear he isn't a coach's favourite. His scratching when we were super short on centres followed by his demotion to the Heat is a clear sign of that. Unless he shows a lot more urgency and physical play I think he will lose his spot to guys like Horak, Knight and Reinhart. B. Jones was a favourite under B. Sutter but was clearly in the doghouse of the Hartley coaching staff.

Originally Posted by New Era

Well, there is Hanowski and Ferland as options as well. Bouma is probably the closest of the bunch, but his year away from the game could be a killer. He could already be well down the depth chart before camp opens up solely on the fact that he didn't play last season.

You are putting WAY too much stock into Bouma not playing last season. And not enough stock into the fact that he was an NHLer two seasons ago at the end of the season and was pencilled in last year as well. Hanowski is not NHL ready from what I saw of him last season and I think he needs some seasoning in the minors. Ferland couldn't even crack the AHL regularly last year and also needs some seasoning in the minors. Bouma is far more NHL ready than either of them IMO.

Originally Posted by New Era

I look at Galiardi, Jones, Jones, Jackman, Hanowski and Ferland as all viable options for the 4th line and could see them being pushed down to that level if certain players step up in training camp and we have a couple good surprises. I'm not discounting Granlund and Reinhart from being players who make pushes in camp and force some moves.

Granlund is a long shot IMO. Hasn't played any time on North American sized ice yet. Hasn't played in our system.

Reinhart looked good last year and could certainly take a depth centre role but I think he'd be best served long term by getting his offensive confidence back first in the minors. I think he's in the mix but I think Knight has the edge.

[manilow78]

Plain and simple.

Bouma and Byron are at best fringe players in the NHL. Let them go to Europe or the KHL where they stand a chance of making a few bucks in hockey.

[manilow78]

Glecross-Backlund-Hudler = the worst first line in the history of the NHL. Cammalleri-Stajan-Stempniak comes in a close second. The Flames are so screwed!

[Muta]

Originally Posted by manilow78

Glecross-Backlund-Hudler = the worst first line in the history of the NHL. Cammalleri-Stajan-Stempniak comes in a close second. The Flames are so screwed!

We're not screwed, we're rebuilding. Didn't you get the memo?

[manilow78]

Originally Posted by Muta

We're not screwed, we're rebuilding. Didn't you get the memo?

Memo or not these guys are the worst first line a team has ever thrown out there. And signing guys like Bouma and Byron does not instill any great confidence in me that this team is moving forward.

[Caged Great]

There are 10 top nine players currently in Baertschi, Backlund, Knight, Cammalleri, Glencross, Stajan, Stempniak, Hudler, Galiardi and Jones.

You then have Hanowski, Horak, Jones (Blair), Jackman, Bouma, McGrattan, Reinhart and Monahan competing for jobs as well.

If you have Jackman and McGrattan as the 13th and 14th forwards, there are still too many forwards for too few positions. I cannot wait for some moves to be made to thresh out some of the middling depth we have in the top nine.

I don't really see Byron getting any ice time on the pro team unless we have a half dozen injuries.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Why exactly would Bancks not accept his QO?

AHL dollars is my guess

Originally Posted by manilow78

Memo or not these guys are the worst first line a team has ever thrown out there. And signing guys like Bouma and Byron does not instill any great confidence in me that this team is moving forward.

You must be new to the game if you honestly believe that the Flames will have the worst 1st line in league history. Lots of NHL teams have had worse first lines, hell just look at Atlanta in 99-00. Their top 3 forwards for even strength ice-time through the year were a 35 year old Ray Ferraro, Andrew Brunette and Kelly Buchburger. No matter who our top line is it wouldn't remotely resemble having having a 4th line plug as a 1st line forward. Hnat Domenichielli became one of their top forwards after we traded him there that year!!!

And complaining that depth players signing their qualifying offers doesn't instill confidence is a really dumb thing to say. It;s like you are complaining that they signed depth players to tiny contracts fro a whole 1 year.

You really need to gain some perspective.

[AC]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

You then have Hanowski, Horak, Jones (Blair), Jackman, Bouma, McGrattan, Reinhart and Monahan competing for jobs as well.

Of those I think Hanowski and Blair Jones will be in the AHL, Horak, Bouma and McGrattan should be on the Flames, Reinhart will see time in the minors (but I thought he looked pretty NHL ready surprisingly last season), Monahan will get his 9 games then go back to junior, and Jackman should be put on waivers or traded for anything.

I'd love to see a few trades made to free up more spots for our younger guys.

It sounds like Bouma had a spot practically guaranteed for him last season if not for his injury, and Horak shouldn't play in the AHL again IMO.

With Bouma and McGrattan, I don't see how Jackman has a role on this team anymore.

[DeluxeMoustache]

I appreciate FDW's take on the current situation. Hanowski is not ready, Granlund has not shown anything, and Blair Jones was demoted for a reason.

Should be interesting to see how the LW situation shakes out, and how Monahan looks. No huge expectations there this year, but cautiously optimistic

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I appreciate FDW's take on the current situation. Hanowski is not ready, Granlund has not shown anything, and Blair Jones was demoted for a reason.

Should be interesting to see how the LW situation shakes out, and how Monahan looks. No huge expectations there this year, but cautiously optimistic

Granlund was one of the best forwards during the development camp.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Granlund was one of the best forwards during the development camp.

Good to hear, I have been out of town for weeks