The original issue was whether or not Trayvon Martin could have "taken down" George Zimmerman, which even someone as narrowly focussed as yourself would have to admit includes not only physical characteristics but a pyschological willingness/confidence to turn around, initiate and engage.
Again, why are you trying to de-value photo's that Martin himself felt illustrated who he was?
Cowperson
The kid looks like a stick, any self respecting cop shoulda been able to take him down.
The original issue was whether or not Trayvon Martin could have "taken down" George Zimmerman, which even someone as narrowly focussed as yourself would have to admit includes not only physical characteristics but a pyschological willingness/confidence to turn around, initiate and engage.
Again, why are you trying to de-value photo's that Martin himself felt illustrated who he was?
Cowperson
And how do any of the pictures you posted show a psychological willingness to engage physically? They don't ... at all, but what they do show is a stereotypical portrayal of a "thug" to make people go "oh ... see?"
They were ridiculously out of place and biased when you posted them, and the fact that you're trying to defend them as some sort of view into his psyche is just sad and wrong.
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The original issue was whether or not Trayvon Martin could have "taken down" George Zimmerman, which even someone as narrowly focussed as yourself would have to admit includes not only physical characteristics but a pyschological willingness/confidence to turn around, initiate and engage.
Again, why are you trying to de-value photo's that Martin himself felt illustrated who he was?
Cowperson
The issue being discussed when you decided to post those photos was Martin's physique. You posted 5 photos, 4 of which are 100% irrelevant to that issue. Even if we allow your attempt at post-hoc rationalization the photos are still irrelevant. You're trying to tell me that 4 photos of blowing smoke are a statement on the psychological willingness/confidence of an individual to engage in a physical confrontation? What a bizarre conclusion.
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Bolded part, while I agree is unfair, is it any different then those demonizing Zimmerman? We don't know what happened, we don't know what either side was thinking, and we don't know their true characters. Calling Zimmerman a racist vigilante or idiot wannabe cop much different than trying to paint Martin as a thug? It just shows the bias of the person, nothing else.
Here's a Charles Barkley, of all people, interview. He makes some assumptions but I think he hits the nail on the head about media and racism about this case.
Charles Barkley talking to CNBC about law in front of a golf course. How is that for 4 things that don't go together! Although, I don't really disagree with anything he said and found his comments pretty thoughtful.
Race is such an issue of everything in a lot of parts of this country, that of course it is a big part of this case. Of course in a lot of cities there is a lot of racial profiling going on, and it is not just by white people, and not entirely by skin color either. I had a black, female cop come to by door once and told me there was a lot of gang activity starting up in the all-black neighborhood a few blocks away, and told me if I saw anyone from that neighborhood in my all-white neighborhood to call the police.
It seems there has become two distinct classes of black people in this area at least. In the office, and in the suburbs, black and white people more or less live happily together. There is not a whole lot of racism in the workplace, or the suburban schools, etc. In those instances, it is not a whole lot different than Canada. But I've talked to numerous black people who state that they have to be very careful about how they dress out in public. Can't wear sweat pants etc without being taken as being a thug. It is sad they feel that way, and I'd say more of them place more blame on their own race than they do on the white people. I think this country has at least progressed to the point where skin color doesn't hold you back. But growing up in a poor black community, with crappy schools, and all the cycles of violence, and father's abandoning kids, etc. definitely does not give you a good chance of a good life.
There is a lot of blame to go around on all sides for how we got to this place, but I think too many Canadians, (and to some degree Northerners) see the answer as just don't be racist. It just is much more complex than that.
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The issue being discussed when you decided to post those photos was Martin's physique. .
Uh, no, the issue being discussed was this post by Calumnate . . . could Trayvon Martin "take" George Zimmerman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by calumniate What I don't understand is that Zimmer was caught lying numerous times, hid the fact that he was training MMA and taking university level defense theory and law, is 29 years old and a SOLID 180 lbs, and he can't take on a 17 year old 155 pounder? Did he just toss the fight or was Martin actually capable of taking this guy?
Physique is part of it. So is the pysche of the opponent. Scared kid or not?
On the side of Zimmerman, trained MMA maniac or "1 on a scale of 10" in terms of fighting ability and a "very nice man" according to his MMA fitness instructor.
Really, you're just wasting time with this.
Cowperson
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The difference of course is that there's a pretty sound basis for that opinion. Martin was a pretty typical kid for his age by all accounts.
Why do you say that?
Being a neighhourhood watch captain doesn't (or shouldn't) make him an overzealous powerhungry idiotic wannabe copper anymore than a suspended student who bragged about his fights and posted "thug" pictures a wannabe gangsta. At least in my opinion but like I said, I think how people want to portray the two should be taken as a bias of the "story-teller" more than anything else.
Last edited by Oling_Roachinen; 07-19-2013 at 09:38 AM.
Being a neighhourhood watch captain doesn't (or shouldn't) make him an overzealous powerhungry idiotic wannabe copper anymore than a suspended student who bragged about his fights and posted "thug" pictures any more a wannabe gangsta. At least in my opinion but like I said, I think how people want to portray the two should be taken as a bias of the "story-teller" more than anything else.
Does being a neighbourhood watch captain who shot and killed an unarmed kid make him an overzealous power-hungry wannabe copper though?
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Uh, no, the issue being discussed was this post by Calumnate . . . could Trayvon Martin "take" George Zimmerman.
Physique is part of it. So is the pysche of the opponent. Scared kid or not?
On the side of Zimmerman, trained MMA maniac or "1 on a scale of 10" in terms of fighting ability and a "very nice man" according to his MMA fitness instructor.
Really, you're just wasting time with this.
Cowperson
That much is obvious, considering your approach is post-hoc revision of your post. Please though, tell me how photos of blowing smoke present Martin's psyche in regards to a physical confrontation. I'm interested to hear that analysis.
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Does being a neighbourhood watch captain who shot and killed an unarmed kid make him an overzealous power-hungry wannabe copper though?
Depending on what happened, absolutely could.
But if Trayvon Martin hide in the shadows, waited for the cracker to pass and sucker punched him to show how tough he is, does that make him a wannabe gangsta?
See how what actually happens matters? That's my point. We don't know what happened, trying to paint either of the two as some sort of stereotype is just showing the bias of the posters on both sides.
Being a neighhourhood watch captain doesn't (or shouldn't) make him an overzealous powerhungry idiotic wannabe copper anymore than a suspended student who bragged about his fights and posted "thug" pictures a wannabe gangsta. At least in my opinion but like I said, I think how people want to portray the two should be taken as a bias of the "story-teller" more than anything else.
Why are you adding things to the description that weren't there before? Makes it a little difficult to discuss the issue if you're just going to move the goal posts each time. There's a sound basis for seeing Zimmerman as an idiot wannabe cop, mostly because a) he wanted to be a cop, and b) he showed himself to be a bit of an idiot.
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Cow person is right. If I ever see a thug like the one below walking through my neighbourhood acting suspicious, I will shoot first and ask questions later. He obviously looks thug tough and would probably ground and pound me MMA style
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But if Trayvon Martin hide in the shadows, waited for the cracker to pass and sucker punched him to show how tough he is, does that make him a wannabe gangsta?
See how what actually happens matters? That's my point. We don't know what happened, trying to paint either of the two as some sort of stereotype is just showing the bias of the posters on both sides.
Well, in my defence, we do know for a fact that Zimmerman shot and killed an unarmed teenager. We also know that, barring some intervening tragedy, if Zimmerman hadn't been out patrolling the perimeter of his gated community with a loaded firearm, Trayvon Martin would still be alive.
Again, I'm not saying that these facts alone mean that Zimmerman was guilty of murder (or indeed any criminal offence). However, they are enough for my sympathies in this tragic story to lie with Martin, the dead child. I'm surprised that, for other posters, despite these few known facts, their sympathies lie with Zimmerman.
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Well, in my defence, we do know for a fact that Zimmerman shot and killed an unarmed teenager. We also know that, barring some intervening tragedy, if Zimmerman hadn't been out patrolling the perimeter of his gated community with a loaded firearm, Trayvon Martin would still be alive.
Again, I'm not saying that these facts alone mean that Zimmerman was guilty of murder (or indeed any criminal offence). However, they are enough for my sympathies in this tragic story to lie with Martin, the dead child. I'm surprised that, for other posters, despite these few known facts, their sympathies lie with Zimmerman.
You don't even need to go that far ... if Zimmerman had stayed in his car and called the police, Martin would be alive today.
Charles Barkley talking to CNBC about law in front of a golf course. How is that for 4 things that don't go together! Although, I don't really disagree with anything he said and found his comments pretty thoughtful.
Race is such an issue of everything in a lot of parts of this country, that of course it is a big part of this case. Of course in a lot of cities there is a lot of racial profiling going on, and it is not just by white people, and not entirely by skin color either. I had a black, female cop come to by door once and told me there was a lot of gang activity starting up in the all-black neighborhood a few blocks away, and told me if I saw anyone from that neighborhood in my all-white neighborhood to call the police.
It seems there has become two distinct classes of black people in this area at least. In the office, and in the suburbs, black and white people more or less live happily together. There is not a whole lot of racism in the workplace, or the suburban schools, etc. In those instances, it is not a whole lot different than Canada. But I've talked to numerous black people who state that they have to be very careful about how they dress out in public. Can't wear sweat pants etc without being taken as being a thug. It is sad they feel that way, and I'd say more of them place more blame on their own race than they do on the white people. I think this country has at least progressed to the point where skin color doesn't hold you back. But growing up in a poor black community, with crappy schools, and all the cycles of violence, and father's abandoning kids, etc. definitely does not give you a good chance of a good life.
There is a lot of blame to go around on all sides for how we got to this place, but I think too many Canadians, (and to some degree Northerners) see the answer as just don't be racist. It just is much more complex than that.
It's really the product of ghettoization.
When you have extremes in wealth based on geographical lines and race, that's the exact kind of attitude you'd expect. The concept is a little foreign to us as Canadians. We have bad neighbourhoods and classes, but we don't have a situation where on one side of the street you have an upper class neighbourhood and the other you have ghetto. People are not allowed to cross that street. The police and infrastructure is still based in many ways on keeping people in the ghetto, because it's easy to have the attitude that no one should cross that street except to commit a crime.
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