[News] Johnson: Flames fans patiently wait for Gaudreau

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Just to throw his name out there, but Steve Sullivan is small light weight that has had a reasonably productive career. He is listed at 5'8" and 165lbs.

And all due respect to him, but I think Gaudreau has a higher skill level. Sullivan has a lot of determination and if Gaudreau can match that, I don't see why he couldn't have a similar career.

I don't think Gaudreau is as quick a skater as Sullivan was in his prime and skating definately helped Sullivan's game in the NHL.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't think Gaudreau is as quick a skater as Sullivan was in his prime and skating definately helped Sullivan's game in the NHL.

Another key factor....League is different since the lockout.

Smaller players will adapt more quickly vs. the style of play when the Flames made it the Final (i.e. Clutch and Grab days).

As for the speed I bet Gaudreau is quicker.

[Robbob]

His hockey iq is also off the charts. Being small and quick is one thing but throw in a high hockey iq and you have a completely new player

[Justin]

If Gaudreau had been 6'0 at his draft date, he likely would of been a top 3 pick. The uncertainty of knowing wether or not he would grow at least 3 inches is what kept him where he went. You can always pack on muscle, your height is limited.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

This was a lottery team. It was the weakest/worst Flames team in basically in the history of the Flames. It is not a benchmark for success or a blueprint to follow going forward.

It is too small with not enough players playing significant minutes that have the degree of toughness required to win,

You completely missed the point.

First, you say the team is too small. Then you focus on our top 6 forwards, despite the fact that our top 6 forwards aren't really much smaller than those on many successful teams. My point is that the top 6 forwards are fine size wise going forward.

Where we lacked in size and were significantly below league average was bottom 6 forwards and on defense. On defense the team was barely 200lbs, this year it's probably going to be even smaller. The size of our bottom 6 has been upgraded a lot for this coming year, and is probably getting close to league average.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by sworkhard

You completely missed the point.

First, you say the team is too small. Then you focus on our top 6 forwards, despite the fact that our top 6 forwards aren't really much smaller than those on many successful teams. My point is that the top 6 forwards are fine size wise going forward.

Where we lacked in size and were significantly below league average was bottom 6 forwards and on defense. On defense the team was barely 200lbs, this year it's probably going to be even smaller. The size of our bottom 6 has been upgraded a lot for this coming year, and is probably getting close to league average.

The defence will be bigger this year, almost assuredly. Cundari is on the shorter side but built like an oak tree. Breen will get a long look. SOB makes the d bigger simply by virtue of being in the lineup more than Sarich.

It's still a concern but you can't fix everything in a day.

[ricardodw]

The potential of the player is extremely dependent on his team-mates.

Go back and look at Giordano just dominating Dustin Brown - Dec 17, 2010. utube link

In the Flames lineup that night the defense was Regehr, Phanuef, Pardy, Gio, and Aarron Johnson and Bouwmeester.

Gio was the smallest Flames D-man.

The forwards the Flames had dressed that night included Iginla, Bourque, Glencross, Nystrom, Prust, Moss, Sjoderstrom, Jokinen, Langway and Conroy. These guys were ALL near the same size as Gio or bigger.

The small forwards were Boyd and Dawes and in style of play Conroy.

That was Gio's best game as a Flame. The Flames beat the Kings 2-1.

There is no way that Gio plays that way against Brown and the Kings with last years Flames line up.


I really have trouble understanding how so many posters here can not see that this team would be a very hard place for Gaudreau to succeed.

The moves are being made to fix the problem (Jones, O'Brien, Knight, Galiardi) but it is hard to see this team being ready for Gaudreau next year.

Is there the will and direction to trade Hudler? Cammalleri? Wideman? Butler? Smith? Stempniak? Stajan? Horak? Byron? or somehow move them along.

Wideman and Hudler were very bad UFA signings that made the problem a lot worse and a lot harder to get out of. This was just done last year and somehow the Feaster team did not see the problem looming. This time last year Alui was our best physical prospect.

What moves are required to get Gio back to his tremendously successful the role as a smaller D-man?

If we want Brodie to play like he did the last part of last year he needs a significantly more physical supporting cast.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

If we want Brodie to play like he did the last part of last year he needs a significantly more physical supporting cast.

[getbak]

Johnny helping out at Bob Hartley's hockey school in Pennsylvania today:

[cannon7]

In addition to Gaudreau, Kenny Agostino is due to graduate next summer as well -- so the Flames hopefully will get an infusion of skill upfront from the NCAA.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Is there the will and direction to trade Hudler? Cammalleri? Wideman? Butler? Smith? Stempniak? Stajan? Horak? Byron? or somehow move them along.

The expectation of most posters here is that guys like Cammalleri, Stempniak, and Stajan will be gone either at the trade deadline, or let go in FA. I don't see Wideman going anywhere as he is our PP quarterback. Horak, Byron, and Smith are all currently fighting for a spot, and if better players are found, they will play in the AHL.

The team is obviously not going to be rebuilt in a day, and I think that if Cammalleri is moved at the deadline as expected, Gaudreau won't have trouble finding a place to play at the end of next season, and the team the season after that will likely look significantly different again, with Gaudreau fitting in on a line with the likes of Monahan.

Horak is an interesting case. If he can't find a way to increase his weight to 200 - 210 lbs, he's going to have trouble sticking. He has the defensive awareness to play a 3rd line shutdown role, but not the size and strength needed. He's listed as 6' so he should be able to reach 200lbs with proper nutrition.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by sworkhard

Horak is an interesting case. If he can't find a way to increase his weight to 200 - 210 lbs, he's going to have trouble sticking. He has the defensive awareness to play a 3rd line shutdown role, but not the size and strength needed. He's listed as 6' so he should be able to reach 200lbs with proper nutrition.

I thought Horak looked significantly stronger last season than his rookie year. I don't really see size/strength as a huge issue for him at all. In fact I thought he was harder on the puck than a lot of our forwards last year. He has the skill to potentially be a 2nd liner but a 3rd liner is probably what he'd shake out as on a strong team.

I'd be shocked if Horak didn't make the team at centre or wing this fall. He's a favourite of mine, very smart.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I thought Horak looked significantly stronger last season than his rookie year. I don't really see size/strength as a huge issue for him at all. In fact I thought he was harder on the puck than a lot of our forwards last year. He has the skill to potentially be a 2nd liner but a 3rd liner is probably what he'd shake out as on a strong team.

I'd be shocked if Horak didn't make the team at centre or wing this fall. He's a favourite of mine, very smart.

He was hard on the puck here in Calgary, but despite that still lost way too many battles to bigger guys, especially behind his own net. As a defensive forward he's going to need to add strength and weight (especially weight since often he lost because he got knocked over while battling) so that he can win most of the battles in his own zone.

He'll probably make the team out of camp this year, but if he wants to remain with the flames as they build the team over the coming years, he'll have to get stronger, or someone else who is just as smart and skilled, but bigger and stronger will take his place.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The potential of the player is extremely dependent on his team-mates.

Go back and look at Giordano just dominating Dustin Brown - Dec 17, 2010. utube link

In the Flames lineup that night the defense was Regehr, Phanuef, Pardy, Gio, and Aarron Johnson and Bouwmeester.

Gio was the smallest Flames D-man.

How did that lineup have anything to do with Giordano dominating Brown? Are you suggesting that the presence of those players gave Giordano the talent to dominate Brown, or are you suggesting that they gave Gio the balls to dominate Brown? Both are ridiculous suggestions.

There is no way that Gio plays that way against Brown and the Kings with last years Flames line up.

Why? Why would his individual talent change? Last year I saw him trying to do too much rather than p,ay the type of game that made him successful. That was not a result of size of the roster, that was a result of him believing he needed to step up his game.

I really have trouble understanding how so many posters here can not see that this team would be a very hard place for Gaudreau to succeed.

That's okay. So many posters here fail to see why you can't seem to understand that player talent is not dependent on the average size of the roster.

Is there the will and direction to trade Hudler? Cammalleri? Wideman? Butler? Smith? Stempniak? Stajan? Horak? Byron? or somehow move them along.

Wow, you have got to be trolling. You're talking about accommodating Gaudreau and including guys that won't be playing for the Flames next season, don't have a any impact because they play defense, or are minor league players who will be long gone as well. Try making some sense. You we're okay when you were suggesting a line that included two or three small players trying to play together, but now you're saying the whole team must be Keegan Kanzig size to make up for Gaudreau's lack of size. That's got to be a subtle joke no one else is getting but is making you laugh your arse off.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by fotze

Well from the beginning of this thread unitl now, my belief he will snub the Flames has gone from 10% to 1% chance of snubbing. His comments and him helping out for the Flames head coaches hockey school sure does not sound like a guy about the snub.l

I don't doubt that Gaudreau has honest intentions, but I am sure friends there are going to be pressuring him and what have you. I will feel a lot better when we have him inked.

We should have drafted his brother to be a hostage.

[868904]

One thing that caught my attention from a recent Gaudreau article was that he mentioned the amazing vision and pass that Monahan made to him for his wrap around goal and it got me thinking that over the past few years, Gaudreau really hasn't had elite type talent to play with.

From his season in Dubuque where his centre was Zemgus Girgensons, who is a good prospect, but hardly a skill guy, to his two years at BC, where the most talented player other than Gaudreau was arguably Chris Kreider, who is another good prospect but more of a power forward rather than an elite skill guy.

Even on last year's US WJC Gold medal winning team, there weren't any real high end guys. He found the most success with JT Miller as his centre, a good prospect, but more of a two way guy with average skills.

I think this just all makes what Gaudreau does even more impressive, because so far his success has been generated by his talent, and not others. It is Gaudreau who is making his linemates better, not the other way around.

Imagine what he could do if he had elite talent to play with? It's arguable that Monahan might be the best centre Gaudreau has ever played with and that Sven might be the best winger that he will ever get to play with in the future. Hopefully the chance to play with highly skilled guys like that will make Calgary even more desirable for Gaudreau.

[nik-]

I wonder if the NCAA allows Gaudreau to get paid for assisting the hockey camp.

[Husky]

Originally Posted by Justin

If Gaudreau had been 6'0 at his draft date, he likely would of been a top 3 pick. The uncertainty of knowing wether or not he would grow at least 3 inches is what kept him where he went. You can always pack on muscle, your height is limited.

I dont agree. Gadreau has always had skill but he hasn't showcased his skill like he has since post draft.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Husky

I dont agree. Gadreau has always had skill but he hasn't showcased his skill like he has since post draft.

Interesting. Gaudreau has primarily been the best player on each team he's played for. I'm interested to hear your talent analysis

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Husky

I dont agree. Gadreau has always had skill but he hasn't showcased his skill like he has since post draft.

72 pts in 60 games with Dubuque before being drafted.

His offensive talent was clearly evident, but he was 94 lbs soaking wet