Alberta Flood Watch 2013

[Slava]

That middle paragraph is interesting. Any link to back that up? I'm referring to the line about the government basically having no choice but to provide assistance. I would be most interested to read this.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by macrov

So, there is a policy in place for disaster relief. If your property is built in an area where the government has given you permission to build, you will be provided assistance in the event of natural disasters. Short of buying out property at FAIR MARKET VALUE, if the government gave you title, and you pay taxes, you should be covered. Thats the promise they made when they gave out the title. That promise is grandfathered until they buy you out. Reneging on a promise like that is not acceptable, and may even be unlawful. And the government will likely be advised by lawyers of this.

So by this logic, if a disaster hits, and it isn't large scale, and so only my house is affected, the Alberta Government is forced to pony up?

Why by insurance?

[Addick]

Originally Posted by macrov

So, there is a policy in place for development rights. If your property is built in an area where the government has given you permission to build, you will continue to have development rights in the event of natural disasters. Short of buying out property at FAIR MARKET VALUE, if the government gave you title, and you pay taxes, you will have development rights. Thats the promise they made when they gave out the title. That promise is grandfathered until they buy you out. Reneging on a promise like that is not acceptable, and may even be unlawful. And the government will likely be advised by lawyers of this.

I think this might be more accurate.

[OldDutch]

Email from the premier to he constituents in Elbow park (Sorry on format, copied from somewhere else). Check out point in bold. This is new info the gov't has not shared to any that I know of yet.

Basically if you turn down assistance you do not need to flood proof your home, and will still get assistance next time. Interesting.

From: Calgary Elbow [mailto:Calgary.Elbow@assembly.ab.ca]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 03:50 PM Mountain StandardTime
To: Calgary Elbow <Calgary.Elbow@assembly.ab.ca>
Subject: Note from Premier Alison Redford
Dear constituents,
On Sunday, our government announced the next steps of our flood recovery plan. You can read
the news release and access more details here. We made this announcement because we
want to give affected Albertans some comfort and the ability to make choices, so they get their
lives back on track. We also want to make sure we’re doing everything we can to keep our
communities safe and protect families and taxpayers from another flood.
No two individuals are experiencing this flood in the same way — everyone is impacted
differently. As a result, I know many of you might have questions about how Sunday's
announcement applies specifically to you and your family.
While the province is taking steps to limit development in the floodway, most flood-affected
Albertans are looking at flood maps and finding that they live in a flood fringe. For those people
who are looking to rebuild in a flood fringe and who are planning to access provincial funding,
we are asking that they take steps to flood proof their homes, to prevent future water damage.
You might have questions about what standards and flood-proofing measures you need to take.
I want you to know that we're moving as quickly as we possibly can to get you those answers
and will announce those standards as soon as they're ready. But, until then, I think it's important
that you are aware of two things:

1) The new provincial flood proofing standards will only apply if you are planning to make a claim through our Disaster Recovery Program. If you decide to use personal funds to pay for repairs to your home, you'll be able to decide which, if any, flood proofing measures you want to take. The requirement to flood proof to provincial standards will only apply if you're accessing provincial funds to make repairs to your home and you want to have the option to make another claim through our Disaster Recovery Program in the event of a future flood.

2) If you live in the flood fringe and you're accessing provincial disaster recovery funding to repair your home, the province will assist you financially as you move forward to take steps to flood proof. We're going to provide up to 15 per cent, over and above what you're awarded through the Disaster Recovery Program, to pay for flood-proofing measures. We want to make sure you have all the information you need to make decisions. And we're working as hard as we can to get that information in your hands as quickly as possible. While these are complex policy decisions for government, we know homeowners have complex personal decisions ahead of them as well.

As a government, we're going to continue to support you in your efforts to rebuild. And as your MLA, I'm going to ensure that I continue to get you as much clarity and certainty as possible about provincial plans and requirements. I know every decision around flood recovery affects you and your family. For example, tonight,
provincial officials and members of my team will attend a meeting with parents to discuss Elbow Park School. While Elbow Park will not be open next year because of flood damage, Minister Jeff Johnson committed to ensuring the province does everything it can to save as much of the historic school as possible. We’re going to work with the Calgary Board, in collaboration with parents, to explore all options to keep Elbow Park student cohorts together in the fall. We want to see this
school thrive.

If you have any additional questions, please don't hesitate to contact [REMOVED FOR PRIVACY]. Information is also available at Alberta.ca.

-Alison Redford, MLA for Calgary-Elbow and Premier of Alberta
(Please feel free to share this email with your community, friends, family and neighbours.)

[octothorp]

The problem with disaster relief, as I see it, is that it's never been written down what the government owes anyone. There's just an expectation that the government will come in and make things right on some level. That creates an enormous amount of uncertainty for everyone. As I've said before, my hope for this flood relief plan moving forward is that the government's expectations and obligations become codified.
The programs macrov lists are all codified programs. There are tremendous amounts of documentation on all of these government transfers. But as far as I know, there's nothing on disaster relief beyond a general acknowledgement that the government will do something. This current arrangement doesn't benefit anyone, since it leads to flood victims wondering what to expect from the government, property owners wondering what their own obligations are regarding mitigation as well as insurance, and an outspoken minority of others (at least I assume it's a minority) wondering why they're paying for flood relief, and leads to the government trying to walk a thin line between satisfying both sides. If it's all codified, there will still be objections, but at least then nobody can justifiably express surprise at the way the government handles it.

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

Email from the premier to he constituents in Elbow park (Sorry on format, copied from somewhere else). Check out point in bold. This is new info the gov't has not shared to any that I know of yet.

Basically if you turn down assistance you do not need to flood proof your home, and will still get assistance next time. Interesting.

That's not how I read that:

The requirement to flood proof to provincial standards will only apply if you're accessing provincial funds to make repairs to your home and you want to have the option to make another claim through our Disaster Recovery Program in the event of a future flood.

It sounds to me like if you are using provincial funds, you must include flood proofing in your repairs. If you use your own funds, you must still include their standard of flood proofing if you want another claim for a future flood.

Perhaps someone with more legal reading ability can chime in?

[Ice_Weasel]

There are ways to potentially mitigate water damage, but 'flood proofing' a house is pretty much impossible. Pretty sure there are no 'tornado proof' homes in Oklahoma, or 'earthquake proof' homes in California. Disasters happen, houses get destroyed, governments are forced to choose when and where to help.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

That's not how I read that:

It sounds to me like if you are using provincial funds, you must include flood proofing in your repairs. If you use your own funds, you must still include their standard of flood proofing if you want another claim for a future flood.

Perhaps someone with more legal reading ability can chime in?

Interesting, but I read it as this, "You take our money you play by our rules, or next time you get nothing. You don't take our money, you can do whatever you want, and you keep a rain check for next time"

Basically the money you do not use now, is put aside for possible use later. The kicker is that no flood proofing is need for you to qualify next time.

Let me give a hypothetical scenario. Insurance gives a payout for SBU. Gov't pays $3000 for outside property for damage not covered. You would then get $450 to flood proof at 15% over. The gov't requires you to install back flow valve at a cost of $10000. So what does that claim do? They take no money, because if they did, they would be out $6,550. Better to do nothing than something in this case.

This is very interesting as it actually will be a deterrent to some home owners to flood proof their place. Which is the exact oposite of what the intent of this program is (to prevent future damage).

I have an article to a person in Hamilton who flooded years ago. The city stepped up and covered the costs of "flood resisting" and paid for the sump and back flow. That is a much more logical step than saying 15% above what we pay you across the board, as some may need no upgrade and some may need thousands in upgrades. Yet they may have insurance cover this time, and the gov't is giving them no help.

Just another way I have been saying this is a good idea in theory but the details have really been lacking and vague. What if I accepted money a week ago, and now want to return it under these new rules? That is another issue. One of many that need a lot of thought.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

That's not how I read that:

It sounds to me like if you are using provincial funds, you must include flood proofing in your repairs. If you use your own funds, you must still include their standard of flood proofing if you want another claim for a future flood.

Perhaps someone with more legal reading ability can chime in?

I think you are right, although the way it is worded it doesn't specifically include that those who use their own funds to flood proof will be included in future assistance, I think it can be assumed that it is the case.

You also, according to that wording, can take government money to fix this time, without the extra 15% and not need to flood proof if you don't want further assistance.

I wonder, how will this impact future home owners?

For example, I don't take the extra 15%, because it costs me twice that to flood proof. In a few years when everyone forgets about this, I sell my house to someone who later gets flooded. Are they eligible? Would they be if they performed the appropriate flood proofing at the time of purchase? How would they know? Is there a record of who has done this flood proofing? or will the government come out when another flood happens and look to see that you did the appropriate things? If that's the case, what if someone gets a shady contractor who says that everything has been done properly, but when the inspector comes in it turns out that they cut corners and didn't install X important equipment.

[Erick Estrada]

I assume people that own houses now branded as flood fringe will see some depreciation in their property values. Are current owners SOL or are they being compensated for the devaluation?

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I assume people that own houses now branded as flood fringe will see some depreciation in their property values. Are current owners SOL or are they being compensated for the devaluation?

As of right now our houses are worthless in flood fringe. Who would buy our house not knowing the answers to the last few posts above? They are marked houses, with no real idea of their worth right now. Basically no one is moving out of here (possibly to high ground) anytime soon, everyone is stuck until the gov't makes up their mind.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

As of right now our houses are worthless in flood fringe. Who would buy our house not knowing the answers to the last few posts above? They are marked houses, with no real idea of their worth right now. Basically no one is moving out of here (possibly to high ground) anytime soon, everyone is stuck until the gov't makes up their mind.

If Calgary is getting these flood fringe titles what is High River getting? Guaranteed Flood titles? Really that town should be shut down and moved to higher level.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

If Calgary is getting these flood fringe titles what is High River getting? Guaranteed Flood titles? Really that town should be shut down and moved to higher level.

Well, until June 21 2013 many of those homes were never on any flood map believe it or not. Some homes were but from what I have been told most were seen as safe flood wise.

Go forward the first maps put very little in the floodway or guaranteed flooding area. Most are in the fringe like Calgary, basically the onus is on people to protect themselves. Hopefully a spillway or berm can be approved quickly so the few that remain can get some value and move out if they wish. I however, do not think anything will come quick in this. Many will be stuck for years, and possibly flood again because they couldn't sell their homes to anyone. Some communities will start to resemble 90's Victoria Park with checked empty lots, parks, etc. Really messy.

My hope here in Sunnyside is although it is bad, there is some hope. We really are one good sewer upgrade from the best help we can get. The berms held last time at something like 8x river flow and near record. Sump pumps and back flows will not help anyone if those berms break next time.

So hopefully, the city gets to work on that, can save a community, and restore confidence in our properties so in a few year we too can have the chance to make a choice on staying or going. All that is out of hands until the gov't takes action, which I hope comes as quick as they have promised.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

Well, until June 21 2013 many of those homes were never on any flood map believe it or not. Some homes were but from what I have been told most were seen as safe flood wise.

Go forward the first maps put very little in the floodway or guaranteed flooding area. Most are in the fringe like Calgary, basically the onus is on people to protect themselves. Hopefully a spillway or berm can be approved quickly so the few that remain can get some value and move out if they wish. I however, do not think anything will come quick in this. Many will be stuck for years, and possibly flood again because they couldn't sell their homes to anyone. Some communities will start to resemble 90's Victoria Park with checked empty lots, parks, etc. Really messy.

My hope here in Sunnyside is although it is bad, there is some hope. We really are one good sewer upgrade from the best help we can get. The berms held last time at something like 8x river flow and near record. Sump pumps and back flows will not help anyone if those berms break next time.

So hopefully, the city gets to work on that, can save a community, and restore confidence in our properties so in a few year we too can have the chance to make a choice on staying or going. All that is out of hands until the gov't takes action, which I hope comes as quick as they have promised.

I hope you guys get this all worked out as I lived in Sunnyside years ago and my thinking is that this type of disaster should have to happen more than just once in multiple decades before your property is branded a risk. I can see in a place like High River but it doesn't seem fair in a place like Sunnyside. On the brightside for you I feel that there's always going to be a demand for property in that area due to it's proximaty to downtown.

[BlackArcher101]

Flowchart released on options for Floodway vs Fringe homes.

http://alberta.ca/albertacode/images...Fact-Sheet.pdf

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

That's not how I read that:

It sounds to me like if you are using provincial funds, you must include flood proofing in your repairs. If you use your own funds, you must still include their standard of flood proofing if you want another claim for a future flood.

Perhaps someone with more legal reading ability can chime in?

1) The new provincial flood proofing standards will only apply if you are planning to make a claim through our Disaster Recovery Program. If you decide to use personal funds to pay for repairs to your home, you'll be able to decide which, if any, flood proofing measures you want to take. The requirement to flood proof to provincial standards will only apply if you're accessing provincial funds to make repairs to your home and you want to have the option to make another claim through our Disaster Recovery Program in the event of a future flood.

In this case AND is the key word.
The requirement will only apply if you take money and want future protection.
Meaning that you have to meet both conditions to maintain protection.
If it said
The requirement will only apply if you take money or want future protection
then either condition would require you to flood proof your home.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Flowchart released on options for Floodway vs Fringe homes.

http://alberta.ca/albertacode/images...Fact-Sheet.pdf

Have you read that flow chart?
If your home is outside of the floodway/flood fringe and your home was not damaged in the flood you get nothing.

What about us poor people who were not affected at all? Where's our parade?

[ranchlandsselling]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

Have you read that flow chart?
If your home is outside of the floodway/flood fringe and your home was not damaged in the flood you get nothing.

What about us poor people who were not affected at all? Where's our parade?

That was the best part of the flow chart!

Is your house in the flood zone or flood fringe?
No,
Did you receive damages in the flood?
No.
You are ineligible for money!

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Flowchart released on options for Floodway vs Fringe homes.

http://alberta.ca/albertacode/images...Fact-Sheet.pdf

Very clear and easy to understand, but I have one issue: future home owners.

I own my house in a flood fringe, take the DRP money, but do not flood proof my home.

I turn and sell my house, whose responsibility is it to the new home owner to let them know they won't be able to get help in the future. The Realtor? Could you sue your Realtor if they failed to inform you?

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by Kavy

I turn and sell my house, whose responsibility is it to the new home owner to let them know they won't be able to get help in the future. The Realtor? Could you sue your Realtor if they failed to inform you?

I'm guessing the lawyer and maybe it'll be on the title?