Flames Development Camp July 10th - 16th

[lifetimefan]

Originally Posted by FFF

For Finnish prospects, it seems spending time in the AHL has become a sign of failure. Barkov, Ristolainen and if it's true, Granlund all basically saying it's NHL or Finland. Smells of hubris, can't like that.

Not just the Finns. Nichushkin wasn't even drafted and was making the same claim - NHL or home.

[Vulcan]

I could be wrong but I have the impression that if Granlund doesn't establish himself a spot in the AHL he can return to Finland. This is what Ortio did and I don't see it as a terrible move. The thing is he is signed and isn't a A+ caliber draft pick. I can't see him heading home just because he doesn't make the Flames. Personally I'm hoping he can light it up in Abbotsford and gain a years experience of Canadian hockey.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by FFF

[...]

For Finnish prospects, it seems spending time in the AHL has become a sign of failure. Barkov, Ristolainen and if it's true, Granlund all basically saying it's NHL or Finland. Smells of hubris, can't like that.

I haven't detected anything new in that regard. Plenty of Finnish players go to the AHL and I have never heard anyone who prefers to play in Europe say that the issue is that AHL is somehow beneath them. Mikael Granlund was the biggest young star in his country and he never uttered one negative word about playing in the minors last season.

Players are loyal to their teams. Some of them think that if they can't get to the NHL during the ongoing season, they should be helping their home organisations. I think it's understandable. Talking about "hubris" here is silly.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Anyone got a video of Baertschi's retaliation?

[FFF]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

I haven't detected anything new in that regard. Plenty of Finnish players go to the AHL and I have never heard anyone who prefers to play in Europe say that the issue is that AHL is somehow beneath them. Mikael Granlund was the biggest young star in his country and he never uttered one negative word about playing in the minors last season.

Players are loyal to their teams. Some of them think that if they can't get to the NHL during the ongoing season, they should be helping their home organisations. I think it's understandable. Talking about "hubris" here is silly.

I think that's a very amicable reading. Yes, loyalty probably plays a part, but then again, shouldn't you also have loyalty to the team that drafted you and decides to send you to the AHL?

As for Mikael Granlund, yes, he took his assignment very well, at least publicly. The whole episode, however, played out in the Finnish media as a humiliation for him. I'd venture a guess that it has played a part in Finnish top prospects' thinking. After all, his little brother has (reportedly) wanted an out-clause to prevent him getting stuck in the AHL. Mainly out of loyalty to his Finnish club, I'm sure.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Was able to dig up the 2008 Development Cap roster:

Current Flames/prospects are in bold.

Amazing what can happen (or not happen) in five years...

EDIT: Here is the 2010 roster -- not much better:

I can't believe Nemisz has been a "prospect" for 5 years.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

So, forgive me if this is obvious or been covered.. but is Granlund coming over this fall?

AHL if he doesn't make it?

I don't think we've really been given a solid answer on this yet. In a Fan interview, Conroy said he's got a clause in his contract where he goes back to Finland if he doesn't make the Flames.

Still doesn't really answer if he'll join the Heat though.

For those of you who watched him this week, do you think he's ready to turn pro. How did he handle body contact? I remember when he was drafted he was only about 160.

[Steve Bozek]

As someone asked earlier, any observations on Matt DeBlouw?

[Erick Estrada]

If Granlund isn't ready for the physical nature of the NHL I would rather him play in the AHL over Finland to get more accustomed to the north american game. Now I realize it's easy for a person in my position to say but some of these Europeans are putting the cart before the horse. I don't understand why a young guy wouldn't want to suck it up and play in the league that is going to best prepare him for the NHL. Hopefully agents would show their clients the big picture here.

[The Swedish Flame]

Originally Posted by FFF

I think that's a very amicable reading. Yes, loyalty probably plays a part, but then again, shouldn't you also have loyalty to the team that drafted you and decides to send you to the AHL?

Some degree of loyalty, but not at the same level. More often than not Swedish and Finnish players end up playing their junior careers in the team where they grew up. The emotional attachment to those clubs is often really strong.

[Drury18]

Has there been any word as to who will not be at camp today?

I can't make it down due to work, but just curious who was leaving early. I was talking to Berra yesterday and sounded like he was still going to be here for today's portion.

[zunie75]

Sorry, lots to read here and I'm sure it's been mentioned already, but can some one give me the times? I know practice starts at 9, any idea how long the day goes?

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by zunie75

Sorry, lots to read here and I'm sure it's been mentioned already, but can some one give me the times? I know practice starts at 9, any idea how long the day goes?

Tuesday, July 16 - Skill Development - Group 1 - 9:00 AM, Group 2 - 10:00 AM - WinSport

I would guess with that timing, it would be about 45 minutes or so on the ice for each group and then maybe another 30 minutes for goalie or centre drills or something like that. I don't think they will be running the camp the entire day like the have the rest of the week as this is just a half day for them.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by FFF

I think that's a very amicable reading. Yes, loyalty probably plays a part, but then again, shouldn't you also have loyalty to the team that drafted you and decides to send you to the AHL?
[...]

Sure, and they do have loyalty to the teams that draft them. There's no epidemic of Finnish players refusing to go to the AHL. You mentioned three names none of whom have actually refused to play in the minors yet.

However, to illustrate my point, look at Barkov for example: his team was in the finals last season and many of his old friends and teammates will play for the championship next season once again. You have to understand that from where his stands at the moment, if he can't make it in the NHL right away he'd rather be helping what is still emotionally his team rather than play for an unknown AHL squad.

That doesn't mean he's so dumb that he doesn't get everything else that goes into that decision. Or that he can't be persuaded otherwise (we'll see what happens). Things change with distance from one's home team. Everyone understands that often you often have to go through the AHL to get to the NHL. Players aren't delusional of under some form of hubris. It's just that sometimes it seems like a natural option to go back home if things don't work out. Especially when they're asked about it before they've had much contact with their drafting teams at all. Of course their hearts are still with their current teams.

But again, I don't agree with your assessment that the AHL is a sign of failure to the players in the sense that you suggest. I detect nothing new. Going back to Europe has always been an option. Unfortunately, a thing like this tends to automatically become a starting point for discussion rather than be seen as a subjective (perhaps weakly supported) view, so I want to contest it right away even though it'll probably prove futile.

[zunie75]

Oh, so they will be done by noon I guess. Shame, would have liked to check it out.

[Erick Estrada]

If anything this camp has proven why teams rarely trade down from a top 10 pick. It is pretty evident that Monahan is clearly a more advanced player than Poirier and Klimchuk at this stage.

[Goodlad]

From what I've heard from everyone, and what I saw in the scrimmages I think it would be in Granlund's best interest to stick in North America for the season. Even if he doesn't earn a roster spot with the big club right out of camp he looks like he's right on the cusp of being NHL ready. I'd venture to guess that if he was sent down to the AHL he'd be one of the first guys called up in case of injuries or (hopefully) trades.

[Enoch Root]

there was a post about Gaudreau in the last couple days where he talked about how much weight he gained this year and how much he wants to gain next year but I can't find it - does anyone recall that? (might have been in discussion with KH)

[MissTeeks]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

there was a post about Gaudreau in the last couple days where he talked about how much weight he gained this year and how much he wants to gain next year but I can't find it - does anyone recall that? (might have been in discussion with KH)

I posted it yesterday:

Darren Haynes‏@DarrenHaynes_CP21h
Johnny Gaudreau just told me he's trying to get to 168-170 pounds by this time next year. He's 158 now, up 15 pounds from last year's camp.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

there was a post about Gaudreau in the last couple days where he talked about how much weight he gained this year and how much he wants to gain next year but I can't find it - does anyone recall that? (might have been in discussion with KH)

In this article http://flamesfrom80feet.blogspot.ca/...uture-and.html

Last year at this time, Gaudreau says he was in the vicinity of 143 pounds. This year, his 5-foot-8 frame is tipping the scales at 158. That still may not be a lot, but it's a lot better.


"Definitely I’m a lot thicker. This summer has been awesome for me. I’ve gained 8-10 pounds since the end of the year. I’ve been working out pretty hard at school and I’m just getting done working out at school so I get to go home now," said Gaudreau, who credits his school's strength and conditioning coach Russ DeRosa for his weight gain.


"I hope that next year, by the end of the year, I’ll be high 160's, maybe 170. I doubt I’ll be reaching the 170’s but hopefully the high 160s -- maybe 168 or 169," said Gaudreau.