07-15-2013, 06:09 PM
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#841
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Fearmongerer
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall
Under the law, you are innocent until proven guilty. Legally, he was not proven guilty. He's, therefore, innocent in the eyes of the law.
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Yeah I understand that...i was meaning in a much more general sense in cases such as these.
I certainly think GZ was guilty of something....bad choices at the very least and likely negligent manslaughter or something along those lines at the most.
So although he was found not guilty as charged...doesnt mean he was completely innocent in layman terms.
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07-15-2013, 06:17 PM
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#842
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NOT breaking news
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transplant99
Yeah I understand that...i was meaning in a much more general sense in cases such as these.
I certainly think GZ was guilty of something....bad choices at the very least and likely negligent manslaughter or something along those lines at the most.
So although he was found not guilty as charged...doesnt mean he was completely innocent in layman terms.
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Prosecution over-reached. If they had gone for negligent manslaughter that you mentioned, they probably would have won.
__________________
Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
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07-15-2013, 06:23 PM
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#843
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Ate 100 Treadmills
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GirlySports
Prosecution over-reached. If they had gone for negligent manslaughter that you mentioned, they probably would have won.
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I really disagree.
They still run into the same problem. They have to prove that:
1) Zimmerman was the aggressor and remained the aggressor; or
2) Zimmerman did not have a reasonable belief that his life was being threatened.
The defence to Murder 2 and manslaughter would have been exactly the same. The difference is only in the intention. With manslaughter or murder 2, the prosecution still has to show that there account of events was correct over Zimmerman's. The evidence of the broken nose, injuries to the back of the head, Martin being on top at the moment of the shooting, etc..is going to get Zimmerman off regardless.
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07-15-2013, 06:30 PM
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#844
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: 127.0.0.1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nage Waza
Say what? How was a guilty verdict within the realm of possibility? I suppose since a charge was laid (against the police wishes) there is always a chance.
Now you claim the local police performed poorly, you don't know that and there was NO evidence to support that claim.
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Kid gets shot .police show up, "yep, textbook case of syg" they really had no interest in pursuing this any further than cleaning the body up.
Could you imagine if this had happened in a civilized country like Australia, Japan, Canada. Would have been investigated with a lot more professionalism.
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07-15-2013, 06:40 PM
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#845
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Fearmongerer
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall
I really disagree.
They still run into the same problem. They have to prove that:
1) Zimmerman was the aggressor and remained the aggressor; or
2) Zimmerman did not have a reasonable belief that his life was being threatened.
The defence to Murder 2 and manslaughter would have been exactly the same. The difference is only in the intention. With manslaughter or murder 2, the prosecution still has to show that there account of events was correct over Zimmerman's. The evidence of the broken nose, injuries to the back of the head, Martin being on top at the moment of the shooting, etc..is going to get Zimmerman off regardless.
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Maybe you are right...i have no idea as i am not a lawyer.
Where i think things would differ, and i could be completely wrong, is the fact that Zimmerman confronted the kid first when told he shouldnt and then caused the series of events that occurred...hence the negligence.
Again i have no idea and dont claim too, but GZ was not innocent in all this. There has to be some level at which his complicity in the death of TM falls under the auspices of criminal misconduct.
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07-15-2013, 06:42 PM
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#846
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Fearmongerer
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffMan
Kid gets shot .police show up, "yep, textbook case of syg" they really had no interest in pursuing this any further than cleaning the body up.
Could you imagine if this had happened in a civilized country like Australia, Japan, Canada. Would have been investigated with a lot more professionalism.
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Although your over the top hyperbole and total disregard for the facts is annoying, its also quite amusing.
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The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to transplant99 For This Useful Post:
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07-15-2013, 06:44 PM
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#847
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: 127.0.0.1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transplant99
Although your over the top hyperbole and total disregard for the facts is annoying, its also quite amusing.
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Which facts did I disregard in my statement?
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07-15-2013, 07:16 PM
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#848
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Ben
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: God's Country (aka Cape Breton Island)
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It's really hot (not that I'm complaining) and I've been drinking but I wanted to clarify not guilty does not mean innocent.
Innocent means you did not commit the crime.
Not guilty means you can't be proven that you did the crime.
They are not necessarily one in the same.
Again, people like myself and the good captain are arguing "not guilty".
__________________
"Calgary Flames is the best team in all the land" - My Brainwashed Son
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07-15-2013, 07:21 PM
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#849
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Calgary AB
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Jeantel further embarrassing herself on CNN right now claiming that "cracka" isn't used to describe white people by black people, but to describe people who act like cops.
Uh huh.
edit: lol. Wow. Now she was asked what Zimmerman meant by "these punks are always getting away with it". Morgan asked if he meant just any black or white thug and Jeantel said "lets be honest it was racial".
So cracker isn't racial, punks is. Gotcha.
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07-15-2013, 07:41 PM
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#850
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Norm!
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__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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07-15-2013, 07:43 PM
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#851
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Norm!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brannigans Law
Jeantel further embarrassing herself on CNN right now claiming that "cracka" isn't used to describe white people by black people, but to describe people who act like cops.
Uh huh.
edit: lol. Wow. Now she was asked what Zimmerman meant by "these punks are always getting away with it". Morgan asked if he meant just any black or white thug and Jeantel said "lets be honest it was racial".
So cracker isn't racial, punks is. Gotcha.
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She's actually a pretty tragic story.
And she didn't help the prosecution with her testimony on the stand and her lying under oath.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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07-15-2013, 07:52 PM
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#852
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Fearmongerer
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffMan
Which facts did I disregard in my statement?
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Well, I will start with the most recent one...
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DuffMan
Could you imagine if this had happened in a civilized country
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07-15-2013, 08:15 PM
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#853
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One of the Nine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valo403
Do you think Zimmerman does the same thing if he sees a white kid walking through the neighborhood?
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This post and all the other ones just like it are ridiculous. I can't believe that everyone is so hung up on the guy being black. More specifically, I can't believe all you people who think that if he was white, Zimmerman would have thought nothing of him. BS. A teenager wandering around at night is a teenager wandering around at night. If you looked out your window and saw a couple teenagers loitering at the end of your driveway, you don't care whether they're black or white or green, they're teenagers hanging around, and that's enough for you to think that they're up to no good.
What a pile of crap this racism angle is. If anything, it's ageism. God it's pathetic reading all these opinions that just need for it to be racism. The f'n guy is brown himself! WTF?
Crucify him for for being an ageist killer, but just give it up with the racism.
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The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to 4X4 For This Useful Post:
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Ark2,
Boblobla,
Brannigans Law,
CaptainCrunch,
jammies,
Nage Waza,
Regorium,
Rhettzky,
Ryan Coke,
RyZ,
Shawnski
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07-15-2013, 08:17 PM
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#854
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: 127.0.0.1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transplant99
Well, I will start with the most recent one...
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I still have no idea what you,re talking about so I guess you and I have different definitions of what a fact is.
__________________
Pass the bacon.
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07-15-2013, 08:24 PM
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#855
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffMan
I still have no idea what you,re talking about so I guess you and I have different definitions of what a fact is.
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I don't think that is the case at all. I think you just like spouting off mindless nonsense that is based on nothing more than your emotional outbursts.
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The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Ark2 For This Useful Post:
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07-15-2013, 08:34 PM
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#856
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: A small painted room
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4X4
This post and all the other ones just like it are ridiculous. I can't believe that everyone is so hung up on the guy being black. More specifically, I can't believe all you people who think that if he was white, Zimmerman would have thought nothing of him. BS. A teenager wandering around at night is a teenager wandering around at night. If you looked out your window and saw a couple teenagers loitering at the end of your driveway, you don't care whether they're black or white or green, they're teenagers hanging around, and that's enough for you to think that they're up to no good.
What a pile of crap this racism angle is. If anything, it's ageism. God it's pathetic reading all these opinions that just need for it to be racism. The f'n guy is brown himself! WTF?
Crucify him for for being an ageist killer, but just give it up with the racism.
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So then it's ageism (profiling). Not much better. As soon as he said 'these young punks, always getting away with it', he ceased to be qualified for anything to do with the law
Last edited by calumniate; 07-15-2013 at 08:47 PM.
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07-15-2013, 08:38 PM
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#857
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: 127.0.0.1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ark2
I don't think that is the case at all. I think you just like spouting off mindless nonsense that is based on nothing more than your emotional outbursts.
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Maybe it's because I still see the case for what it is, a kid is dead because of someone else's decision to shoot a bullet into him. Seems like everyone else here has all of a sudden become an expert in US law, and why the above is not murder or manslaughter.
__________________
Pass the bacon.
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07-15-2013, 08:38 PM
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#858
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First Line Centre
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Never heard anything about this case until now, but I've always found it strange how Americans get so frenzied about these trials every so often. It's like the news media decides to occasionally latch onto one of these things as a major info-tainment event.
Last edited by Zarley; 07-15-2013 at 08:58 PM.
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07-15-2013, 08:53 PM
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#859
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Offered up a bag of cans for a custom user title
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Westside
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffMan
Kid gets shot .police show up, "yep, textbook case of syg" they really had no interest in pursuing this any further than cleaning the body up.
Could you imagine if this had happened in a civilized country like Australia, Japan, Canada. Would have been investigated with a lot more professionalism.
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Clearly you believe the lies that have been made. There was an investigation and there have been no facts brought forward that the investigation performed was incomplete. In fact, the police were exactly correct, there was no basis to lay charges because there was no evidence to support a charge.
Thankfully it went to trial anyway, but for you to repeat what has been proven false is silly.
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07-15-2013, 09:00 PM
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#860
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: 127.0.0.1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nage Waza
Clearly you believe the lies that have been made. There was an investigation and there have been no facts brought forward that the investigation performed was incomplete. In fact, the police were exactly correct, there was no basis to lay charges because there was no evidence to support a charge.
Thankfully it went to trial anyway, but for you to repeat what has been proven false is silly.
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Let me ask you this, if Z was not out that night, armed, looking for people he was worried about, would TM been killed that night?
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