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Old 07-12-2013, 11:36 AM   #1
undercoverbrother
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http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/news-no...ng.asp?id=4880

Spoiler!


Not sure I know the reason for this. Might be like garrision dress, a huge waste of money.
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Old 07-12-2013, 11:41 AM   #2
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http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/news-no...ng.asp?id=4880



Not sure I know the reason for this. Might be like garrision dress, a huge waste of money.
I think the original intent of merging the forces together was to save money and have a more efficient back office, not unlike merging companies.

So, I'm not so hot and bothered about restoring traditional uniforms, ranks, etc but rather interested in whether or not this divestiture of the navy, army and air force from each other will lead to a less efficient cost structure.

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Old 07-12-2013, 12:26 PM   #3
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Waiting on CaptainCrunch's perspective with baited breath.
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Old 07-12-2013, 01:46 PM   #4
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There were a lot of good aspects to the unification of the army, navy and Airforce in limits. If it had just been about merging the logistics arms of the military to create one services corp it would have worked well and probably been efficient. However the concept of merging uniforms, rank structures and making generic unit descriptors destroyed a lot of the moral fabric of the Military.

On top of training a military lives and dies on tradition, moral and passing the torch. The American's and Russians are the king of that. When your part of a Guards unit that name and division number means everything, every private and Sergeant in that unit knows that they're part of a unit that defended Stalingrad, or drove on Berlin.

In the States you know that your unit fought in specific battles.

When Hellyar stripped that identity away he stripped away the esprit de corp from the military and tried to make it a faceless mob. He had a good logistics concept but he didn't understand anything about the importance of unit pride and moral and history.

He wanted to take it a step forward and thank god he didn't. His vision was generalized training so a army mechanic that fixed tanks could be assigned to a destroyer to fix engines. Or a rifle man would also be trained on ship board operations to man turrets. It was clumsy and dumb.

On top of that the combined uniforms were crushing, not only were the dark greens incredibly ugly, but they didn't discern army from navy from airforce. It stripped service pride.

I like the changes. As a solider when you went out, you not only fought for town and country and queen so to speak. But you fought for the guys next to you. You also fought to maintain the equal of the ghosts of the unit past.

As a side note I love the fact that Western Land Group is being renamed the 3rd Division. The 3rd Canadian Division included such formations as the Highlanders, the Winnipeg Rifles, The Queens own, the Scottish Regiment and more. They stormed the beach at Juno, they and fought in the battle of Normandy. The 3rd battalion fought in the battle of Vimy and other major WW1 engagements.

Bringing back the unit tags and insignias is a great source of pride to soldiers and ex soldiers alive.

I love the fact that they're bringing back the WW2 Canadian Army badge as a secondary badge.

I think this is a great thing.
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Old 07-12-2013, 01:47 PM   #5
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Old 07-12-2013, 02:08 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch View Post
There were a lot of good aspects to the unification of the army, navy and Airforce in limits. If it had just been about merging the logistics arms of the military to create one services corp it would have worked well and probably been efficient. However the concept of merging uniforms, rank structures and making generic unit descriptors destroyed a lot of the moral fabric of the Military.

On top of training a military lives and dies on tradition, moral and passing the torch. The American's and Russians are the king of that. When your part of a Guards unit that name and division number means everything, every private and Sergeant in that unit knows that they're part of a unit that defended Stalingrad, or drove on Berlin.

In the States you know that your unit fought in specific battles.

When Hellyar stripped that identity away he stripped away the esprit de corp from the military and tried to make it a faceless mob. He had a good logistics concept but he didn't understand anything about the importance of unit pride and moral and history.

He wanted to take it a step forward and thank god he didn't. His vision was generalized training so a army mechanic that fixed tanks could be assigned to a destroyer to fix engines. Or a rifle man would also be trained on ship board operations to man turrets. It was clumsy and dumb.

On top of that the combined uniforms were crushing, not only were the dark greens incredibly ugly, but they didn't discern army from navy from airforce. It stripped service pride.

I like the changes. As a solider when you went out, you not only fought for town and country and queen so to speak. But you fought for the guys next to you. You also fought to maintain the equal of the ghosts of the unit past.

As a side note I love the fact that Western Land Group is being renamed the 3rd Division. The 3rd Canadian Division included such formations as the Highlanders, the Winnipeg Rifles, The Queens own, the Scottish Regiment and more. They stormed the beach at Juno, they and fought in the battle of Normandy. The 3rd battalion fought in the battle of Vimy and other major WW1 engagements.

Bringing back the unit tags and insignias is a great source of pride to soldiers and ex soldiers alive.

I love the fact that they're bringing back the WW2 Canadian Army badge as a secondary badge.

I think this is a great thing.
The combination to "Armed Forces" was garbage. I can't recall exactly when, I am sure you can, they seperated the services. I think it happened before I join (89).

These changes are really above the unit level. Trust me the units know their history (I know you know this). I know my unit history, I know the Highlanders (10th Battalion) stood when nearly everyone else ran on April 22 1915. I know that we stood up and walked across a little strip on land in Holland on Oct 31 1944. I know that the Patricias stood when everyone else ran away at Kapyong. I know that we stood in the face of agression in 1993.

The units (for the most part, sadly some are lost forever) maintain their names and/or already honour their predecessors.

I just don't see the point I guess.
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Old 07-12-2013, 02:17 PM   #7
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The combination to "Armed Forces" was garbage. I can't recall exactly when, I am sure you can, they seperated the services. I think it happened before I join (89).

These changes are really above the unit level. Trust me the units know their history (I know you know this). I know my unit history, I know the Highlanders (10th Battalion) stood when nearly everyone else ran on April 22 1915. I know that we stood up and walked across a little strip on land in Holland on Oct 31 1944. I know that the Patricias stood when everyone else ran away at Kapyong. I know that we stood in the face of agression in 1993.

The units (for the most part, sadly some are lost forever) maintain their names and/or already honour their predecessors.

I just don't see the point I guess.
I get what your saying, I knew my individual unit history, more because I was a history buff then anyone took the time to teach it.

But attaching units to the historical division names to me is significant as is bring back things like the WW2 badges instead of the really ugly bland Canadian Forces badge that was placed on my beret when I first trained.

To me, its a point of pride.
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Old 07-12-2013, 02:31 PM   #8
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I get what your saying, I knew my individual unit history, more because I was a history buff then anyone took the time to teach it.

But attaching units to the historical division names to me is significant as is bring back things like the WW2 badges instead of the really ugly bland Canadian Forces badge that was placed on my beret when I first trained.

To me, its a point of pride.
We will agree to disagree.


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Canadian Forces badge that was placed on my beret when I first trained
Happy day when I removed that. Although, I think it will still be worn during Basic.
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Old 07-14-2013, 10:45 AM   #9
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Old 07-14-2013, 12:29 PM   #10
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If it's fishy I'm sure it'll attract captaincrunch
I'm not sure what they means.
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Old 07-14-2013, 12:43 PM   #11
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I'm not sure what they means.
I think he's referring to your avatar
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Old 07-14-2013, 01:03 PM   #12
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ah
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:09 AM   #13
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I'm not sure what they means.
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I think he's referring to your avatar
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ah
For Vagina.
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Old 07-15-2013, 06:42 PM   #14
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Do you have a herring in your mouth instead of a tongue?
Walked right into that - hook, line, and sinker.
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