Waters BBQ's Dion Phaneuf

[Walter Reed]

Entertaining rant by Bill Waters concerning the Leaf D-man.

http://www.630ched.com/Podcasts/Episodes.aspx?PID=2254
July 12 - 2nd half hour podcast

[BACKCHECK!!!]

I opened this thread having literally no idea what it was going to be about.

[Jebus]

any chance of a coles notes?

[ClubFlames]

I thought Phaneuf's BBQ got flooded.

[The Fonz]

For those of us that dont want to listen to all 23 mins.... when do we start listening

[lifetimefan]

Short version: Waters flinging poo.

Says Dion should be traded ASAP, heard Oil are interested, Leafs should take any deal just to get rid of him.
Most overated, undernourished player in the history of the NHL, and Burke should have been fired 6 years ago for making him C.

Says 28 other teams wouldn't take Phaneuf when he was traded by Calgary, overrated (by himself and the Leafs), not smart, at best 20 min TOI ES.
Replacement as addition by subtraction.

Next captain: He likes Lupul, doesn't like Kessel - doesn't think he's a leader.
Says Phaneuf's leadership is hiding behind the goalpost after spearing a guy in the testicles.

He hopes Mr and Mrs Phaneuf aren't offended, it's unfortunate that their son is only making 6.5M (poor attempt at sarcasm).

[Erick Estrada]

Sounds like typical Toronto over the top media. They aren't happy unless they have a whipping boy or two. I know Phaneuf is no saint but this sounds to me like a very opinionist piece. Also I have a very, very, very, very difficult time believing 28 teams wouldn't have taken Phaneuf when the Flames were trading him.

[Dx54]

Yet I'd still have him over Stajan and the other bums that was packaged in that deal..

[Roof-Daddy]

Don't like Phaneuf as a hockey player at all anymore. He had all the tools AND the toolbox, but he left the toolbox out in the rain too many times and it rusted right out. The tools aren't the greatest anymore either, but I think that's due to some of the injuries he sustained earlier in his career......like the whole right side of his body, pretty much.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Sounds like typical Toronto over the top media. They aren't happy unless they have a whipping boy or two. I know Phaneuf is no saint but this sounds to me like a very opinionist piece. Also I have a very, very, very, very difficult time believing 28 teams wouldn't have taken Phaneuf when the Flames were trading him.

In player polls, his peers were annually rating Phaneuf among the top three most overrated NHL players BEFORE he was traded by the Flames.

This is nothing new.

Cowperson

[FlamesFanStrandedInEDM]

Originally Posted by Dx54

Yet I'd still have him over Stajan and the other bums that was packaged in that deal..

Hey, I'm sure that bag of pucks they got in return helped facilitate a practice or two...

[kyuss275]

LOL 28 teams would not trade for Dion when he was in Calgary. Thats because he was only offered to 2 teams. After the trade i saw lots of quotes of Gm's saying they wish they knew he was on the block.

I am pretty sure Walter before the playoffs said Kessel was not worth $4 million. This guy is out to lunch.

[OffsideSpecialist]

I still like Dion

[Locke]

The problem with Phaneuf is context.

He's paid like a top 2 Dman, and yet he cant play as a top 2 Dman.

Hes a good player so long as you're not expecting too much of him, but everyone expects far too much from him. His contract dictates that he should offer more, but there isnt any more to offer.

If Dion were a $3.5M Dman expected to log top 4 minutes then teams would be over the moon with joy, but he isnt.

[Vulcan]

Dion started his downhill slide when he no longer backed up his play with his fists. He's become a paper tiger.

[Russic]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

In player polls, his peers were annually rating Phaneuf among the top three most overrated NHL players BEFORE he was traded by the Flames.

This is nothing new.

Cowperson

Dion drove me insane every OT when he'd pinch/try to throw a massive check like an absolute mad man and cost us an odd man rush. There were times it felt like he was single handedly responsible for every single point we threw away in OT. I'm fully aware my bias resulted in me noticing that to an unfair degree, but I couldn't help it. Of course it doesn't help that he did exactly that in one of the Leaf's most important playoff games.

He feels like a "where there's smoke there's fire" kind of player. When the players in the league are consistently marking a guy as ineffective you have to wonder a little.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Oh Dion...how the mighty have fallen. 3 short years ago people were saying that we got totally fleeced in the Phaneuf trade. That's because they thought Dion was going to continue to improve...and instead he's regressed. Pretty shocking considering his pedigree and his age at the time, but I think Sutter was smart enough to see the kid didn't have the right internal makeup to be a true star in the NHL. When you consider that deal you could almost say Stajan straight up for Phaneuf, and I would still almost do that deal. Stajan regressed a little too, but I like his character a heckuva lot more than Phaneuf's.

Hagman was next to a total bust and is out of the league, but then again so is Sjostrom. Ian White was a decent player here and is now more of a borderline NHL defenseman, but then again so is a much younger Keith Aulie. Jamal Mayers recently won the cup with Chicago and I liked him a lot when he was here.

My only real problem with the Phaneuf trade is that we didn't get any young pieces back, which I still can't figure out why we wouldn't get at least a throw-in prospect. Either way this deal doesn't look too bad today as Stajan is still a very serviceable player and if he wasn't older would probably be part of the leadership group going forward. Hindsight is 20/20 so we get to look at this deal again a few years down the road.

To Toronto:
Dion Phaneuf
2010-11: 66, 8 22 30, -2 (10th on his own team in +/- not including part timers)
2011-12: 82, 12 32 44, -10 (16th on his own team)
2012-13: 48, 9 19 28, -4 (15th on his own team, D-man Mark Fraser was +18)
*Overall a decent offensive defenseman with some solid physicality, but not good enough defensively to be a top pairing d-man. I would go so far as to say he's become a liability for their team defense.

Fredrik Sjostrom
2010-2011 66, 2 3 5, -5
Played the last 2 seasons in the Swedish Elite league with pretty similar stats.
*He was always a marginal player that had good speed. A throw-in.

Keith Aulie
2010-11 40, 2 0 2, -1
2011-12 17, 0 2 2, -2
2012-13 (with TB) 45, 2 5 7, +1 (on a terrible defensive team)
* For my money, Aulie has become a dependable bottom pairing defender with great size. I haven't watched him enough to see all the pros and cons to his game, but he's a guy that would be perfect for the Flames right now. He's still only 24.

To Calgary
Matt Stajan
2010-11 76, 6 25 31, +1
2011-12 61, 8 10 18, -3
2012-13 43, 5 18 23, +7 (Led the team in +/- by a large margin)
* Stajan regressed offensively from his Toronto days, but he became our best 2-way center (not saying much I know) and a good character player. People thought he was a 2nd line center, but he's not that good, so similar to Dion, if you don't expect too much you shouldn't be disappointed with him. At least he isn't a liability defensively like Dion is.

Niklas Hagman
2010-11 76, 11 16 27, -2
2011-12 71, 9 14 23, -7
2012-13 KHL- 20 points in 50 games and -10.
*His career is nearly over if he can't hack it in the KHL. He was on a severe downswing when we acquired him.

Ian White
2010-11 (w/ Calgary, Carolina, and San Jose) 78, 4 22 26, +3
2011-12 (Detroit) 77, 7 25 32, +23
2012-13 (Detroit) 25, 2 2 4, +5
*Not sure why he played so little last year. I still think he's a good defender who can rack up the assists. Might be winding down his career already but he's not quite 30.

Jamal Mayers
2010-11 (San Jose) 78, 3 11 14, +3
2011-12 (Chicago) 81, 6 9 15, -4
2012-13 (Chicago) 19, 0 2 2, +2
* Always liked his hustle and physical play. He's probably a borderline player now, but still won a cup with Chicago this last season.

Overall, I'm still ok with the return we got for Phaneuf, but we definitely lost some significant offense when he left and haven't really replaced it since. I'd still rather have him gone with all the flaws to his game though.

[Huntingwhale]

This guy knows all about Doin Pahneuf

[Heavy Jack]

^^^

So that's what Dr. Claw looks like from Inspector Gadget.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

I opened this thread having literally no idea what it was going to be about.

I thought it was his honeymoon story or something haha