Capology: Is Feaster Doing it Wrong?

[FlameZilla]

Feaster's obviously doing it wrong. I don't know how on Earth he's going to manage to re-sign Jankowski, Monahan, Gaudreau, Baertschi, Brodie, Berra & Gillies after the 2016-2017 season. Dynasties like that are hard to maintain...

[bluck]

Flames win the cup before the Oilers. Yup I said it.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So Phanuef ... who was clearly the best defenseman of his generation signed a 6.5 m / year contract on Feb 6, 2008 that would run through to 2013-14

He was taking 6.5 M/ yr when if he improved 5% (or even stayed at the same level) he would win 2-3 Norris trophies within that 6 year span.

He did not believe in his ability?


He took the 7M in the first year and only 5.5M in this last year when if he did as expected he would be would be worth $10M+ the last 2-3 years of the contract.

When he signed the contract there was a believable argument that he might be a better cornerstone franchise player than Crosby or Ovechkin.... no one else entered that sort of discussion.

Turns out Phanuef was correct in taking the money at the time. If the Flames would have done the RFA contracts for 3M each he never would have gotten above 5M. 2.5, 2.5, 3.0 as RFA contracts takes us to when he became a Leaf and a 5M UFA d-man. unless he became an Oiler on an Offer sheet and the Flames get 3 #1 picks.

How is phaneuf a counter argument? He got top dman money at that age with term. Signing backlund at 3 million for 7 years is likely a bad decision for backlund, and perhaps even the flames.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by SebC

According to who? Forwards are well known to be pretty close to their peak at 25.

so Backlund has peaked? or is this his peak year?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

so Backlund has peaked? or is this his peak year?

I'm sure SebC meant offensively they tend to peak around their mid-20's.

That's true, especially in goal scorers. In all around game though, no, not true at all. Nor does it mean there aren't exceptions to the rules.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

How is phaneuf a counter argument? He got top dman money at that age with term. Signing backlund at 3 million for 7 years is likely a bad decision for backlund, and perhaps even the flames.

Phanuef did not take top 3 in the league d-man money. He signed cheap to get the money up front rather than a 2 year deal for 2.5... Win the Norris and sign a 7 year 10M deal. Weber (same age as Phaneuf) for instance got paid 14M last year and 14M this coming year. If Phanuef would have turned out to be as good as Weber (as virtually every knowledgeable hockey person thought in 2008) he would be getting paid 6.5 and 5.5 last year and next = 12M rather than $28M that a Weber calibre guy earns...... That is 16M left on the table by Phanuef to get his $$$$ early.


Any deal can't be a bad deal for both Backlund and the Flames. One side gets more value. Either Backlund outplays his 21M and has 210 NHL goals after the end of 7 years... a win for the Flames. Or Backlund continues his 10 goal / season pace for the next 2 years and the Flames are overpaying $15M (5yrs @ 3M)

[SebC]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

I'm sure SebC meant offensively they tend to peak around their mid-20's.

Precisely.

[Sylvanfan]

I still think the long term deals should only be going to top 2 defenceman, number one goaltenders, or top line type forwards. The next tier of players 4-7 forwards, 3-4 defenceman should never be signed for more than 5 years, and preferably less than 4. So with Backlund being the age he is and the player he is, I think the 2 year deal is a better option than a 4-5 year deal. If he's that good you have no problem paying him...if he is what he is, than he is a player that can be replaced if you get the other top end guys in place.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Phanuef did not take top 3 in the league d-man money. He signed cheap to get the money up front rather than a 2 year deal for 2.5... Win the Norris and sign a 7 year 10M deal. Weber (same age as Phaneuf) for instance got paid 14M last year and 14M this coming year. If Phanuef would have turned out to be as good as Weber (as virtually every knowledgeable hockey person thought in 2008) he would be getting paid 6.5 and 5.5 last year and next = 12M rather than $28M that a Weber calibre guy earns...... That is 16M left on the table by Phanuef to get his $$$$ early.

No way Phaneuf signed for cheap. He got top money. That was a huge contract for a 22 year old defenseman back then and still would be now at a $6.5M cap hit. It literally "bought" two years of UFA. In comparison, Karlsson won the Norris and has the same cap hit. Weber is a poor comparison because he refused to sign a long-term contract with the Predators. You have to consider the times. How many 22 year old defenseman got that kind of money and term? Nobody else but Phaneuf?

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by FAN

No way Phaneuf signed for cheap. He got top money. That was a huge contract for a 22 year old defenseman back then and still would be now at a $6.5M cap hit. It literally "bought" two years of UFA. In comparison, Karlsson won the Norris and has the same cap hit. Weber is a poor comparison because he refused to sign a long-term contract with the Predators. You have to consider the times. How many 22 year old defenseman got that kind of money and term? Nobody else but Phaneuf?

Karlsson is taking the Guaranteed money now...... who could blame him. It is a lot money. He does not have confidence that he will be winning the Norris on a regular basis. well at least he is willing to pay for the risk insurance ..... he gets his 48M ..if injured or he loses his mojo.

It will be interesting to compare him and Subban in years 5-7 of Karlsson's contract..... Subban will be making 10-14M+ (or whatever the new CBA/ Cap allows) and Karlsson will be 7-7-7.5. Right now Karlson is making 5 - 5.5 to subban's 2.8 .

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Win the Norris and sign a 7 year 10M deal. Weber (same age as Phaneuf) for instance got paid 14M last year and 14M this coming year.

Weber's cap hit: $7,857,143 against a cap of $70,200,000 at time of signing = 11.2% of cap.
Phaneuf's cap hit: $6,500,000 against a cap of $56,700,000 at time of signing = 11.4% of cap.

Explain to us again how exactly Phaneuf's deal was cheap.

[OzSome]

I think Backlund's contract is just about right. Flames still have some RFA to sign such as TJ Brodie who I think will get at least 3 years minimum with some increase in pay. It's still a long way for the season to start so lots of time to figure out the cap thingy.

[Nittmo]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

Feaster's obviously doing it wrong. I don't know how on Earth he's going to manage to re-sign Jankowski, Monahan, Gaudreau, Baertschi, Brodie, Berra & Gillies after the 2016-2017 season. Dynasties like that are hard to maintain...

you have crowned a lot of guys there..till they either pan-out or don't, this group looks very inexpensive for now...

[rollie619]

Originally Posted by Nittmo

you have crowned a lot of guys there..till they either pan-out or don't, this group looks very inexpensive for now...

Someone did't get the sarcasm.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Feaster is doing better than most will give credit for.. Feels like he's actually got a goal and willing to stick to it (regardless of short term judgement from fans), something this club has been missing.

[foshizzle11]

I don't think he is doing it wrong. I don't like the idea of paying for future talent that may never happen. Pay the players for what they have earned and don't give out any contracts over 5 years unless they are proved top pairing D, top line forwards or starting/elite goalies. They deserve it. Make everyone else earn it and keep the length shorter.

I like what he is doing right now with the contracts that are being signed. Nothing crazy so far. I wouldn't mind seeing Brodie locked in for 5 or 6 years but that will cost the Flames I am sure. Giving him 2 years is also fine, we will see what we really have in this kid over the next few years.

[FlamesAndBruins]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Third line wingers are worth about 1M not 2.5M

On Chicago (SC Champs) the 7th highest paid winger Saad 894k.... LA #7 Toffolli 870K,

If Chicago gets a 3rd line player for 3.0 M then they couldn't afford Hossa.

On Edmonton #7 Boyd Gordon @3M and #8 Smyth @ 2.25

You should never pay more than what a guy is worth.... If Backlund scores 50 goals in 2 years and is locked in at 3M for another 5 years he will be unhappy.

Really? 25 goals a year is easily top 6 production, and along with his decent two-way game a 50 point Backlund for 3m is a bargain.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by FlamesAndBruins

Really? 25 goals a year is easily top 6 production, and along with his decent two-way game a 50 point Backlund for 3m is a bargain.

and Backlund would be unhappy..... he would be locked in at 3M when he deserves more.

[macrov]

OP for president?

[sun]

Originally Posted by macrov

OP for president?

Originally Posted by TurnedTheCorner

Stop making bumping threads.

..