Calgary SSP Development Listing

[Resolute 14]

But a 3 in four chance it is easier to get to.

Nearly everybody I work with who worked downtown in the past says they'd only go back if they had no choice.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I think you over estimate how much people care about working downtown.

Downtown jobs typically pay better for a variety of reasons. People usually care about dollars in their wallet.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Downtown jobs typically pay better for a variety of reasons. People usually care about dollars in their wallet.

I don't necessarily buy that, especially when you factor parking costs in.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I think you over estimate how much people care about working downtown.

I don't think it's that. I prefer to work downtown vs. an office park too, and I prefer to work in a pretty building vs. an ugly box as well. It's just that aligning those interests might not be the most profitable decisions for the company. I think the OP overestimates the impact of Imperial making their employees / potential employees happy has on their bottom line. Exxon did not become the world's biggest company coddling their workforce (everyone has Imperial/Exxon stories!). The competative advantage of being located in Alberta is the hydrocarbons located here not the 'brilliant minds' these companies get to tap. Exxon's competative advantage specifically is having a large enough business and organization to be able to handle the ebbs and flows of the oil industry better than other companies. Their size allows them to be able to be counter-cyclical and spend when everyone else is running scared, and avoid bidding up for materials and people when everyone else is in a frenzy.

[Bigtime]

Hey so about that absolutely draw dropping proposed building...

[Tyler]

I'm hoping that this helps spur the development of the Bow South and maybe someone with some dynamite can blow up the CBE building and build a monster tower there. Would help move downtown a bit eastward and help hook up the CBD with the EV

[I-Hate-Hulse]

CP is experiencing significant turnover. HH theatrics aside, the move to Ogden is usually cited as a factor as it's:

1) Longer to get to for many people.
2) Bad area of town, few amenities.
3) Transit options are worse than DT - an issue for their young and underpaid workforce.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

CP is experiencing significant turnover. HH theatrics aside, the move to Ogden is usually cited as a factor as it's:

1) Longer to get to for many people.
2) Bad area of town, few amenities.
3) Transit options are worse than DT - an issue for their young and underpaid workforce.

Don't forget the obstacles their location creates in having bridges properly inspected thoroughly

[Bigtime]

Another big difference between CP and IOL is the IOL Quarry Park campus at least looks to be a nice development. The new CP building is the equivalent of a industrial warehouse for their employees.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

I don't. Talk to anyone that has tried both. Most are very happy to get back downtown, especially since it's a 1 in 4 chance your suburban office park hell is further from your house than downtown is.

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

But a 3 in four chance it is easier to get to.

Nearly everybody I work with who worked downtown in the past says they'd only go back if they had no choice.

Hulkrogan mistyped there. It should read "3 in 4 chance."

Approximately 75% of Calgary is closer to downtown than to Quarry Park. It will save a few people a little bit of commute time, but it will cost MANY people a great deal of commute time.

[Barnes]

Who cares where Imperial is. They could move their head office back to Toronto and no one would notice.

Telus Sky is a huge step forward for the city and such a great location.

[rotten42]

IOL is spending a lot of money on their campus. I have seen some of the documents around the move out of downtown and their "buy-in" survey from employees was actually very high. They have gone out of their way to involve employees in the process.


You will always have people in both camps. (downtown vs sub) There isn't a one solution for all.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

But a 3 in four chance it is easier to get to.

Nearly everybody I work with who worked downtown in the past says they'd only go back if they had no choice.

During our temporary relocation last month, even some of the people who lived closer to the temporary suburban office couldn't wait to get back our downtown office. Although some people like the ability to park their car, they preferred the ability to have a variety of lunch options and more inspiring views than their car in the oceanic parking lot.

Originally Posted by Tyler

I'm hoping that this helps spur the development of the Bow South and maybe someone with some dynamite can blow up the CBE building and build a monster tower there. Would help move downtown a bit eastward and help hook up the CBD with the EV

I really hope this development or the potential new residential density bonus rule spurs adding residential components to developments and redevelopment along urban corridors in the core.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Another big difference between CP and IOL is the IOL Quarry Park campus at least looks to be a nice development. The new CP building is the equivalent of a industrial warehouse for their employees.

Originally Posted by rotten42

IOL is spending a lot of money on their campus. I have seen some of the documents around the move out of downtown and their "buy-in" survey from employees was actually very high. They have gone out of their way to involve employees in the process.


You will always have people in both camps. (downtown vs sub) There isn't a one solution for all.

As far as suburban office development goes, Imperial will probably be very nice. They could do a lot worse - think CP.

Still, until the SELRT gets there, transportation there won't be great for the majority of the city.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

As far as suburban office development goes, Imperial will probably be very nice. They could do a lot worse - think CP.

Still, until the SELRT gets there, transportation there won't be great for the majority of the city.

Even after it's there, anyone taking the train in would likely be transfering downtown (particular before the QP-Seton phase)... that's gotta add insult to injury.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Sure would be nice if there was a mini grocery downtown to service not only these residential buildings but the office lunch crowd as well. Think of a Tesco Express in the UK. Great place to pop in grab some decent sandwiches / fruit + whatever small items you might need for dinner that night. For those not familiar with a Tesco Express, they're small - like the size of a Banana Republic.

One close to the CORE mall/Stephen Ave and Eau Claire should do it nicely.

[_Q_]

Just to chime in on this downtown vs. suburb office debate.

Last year I made the move from my downtown office job to one in the foothills industrial area. It was probably one of the worst decisions I have ever made. My commute has improved, but that's about it. It feels like a prison here. I wish there was something the city could do to outlaw all suburban office developments, because they are absolute hell.

So I truly feel for the IOL and CP employees. I would go back to working downtown in a hearbeat even if I was offered less money than I am currently making.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Sure would be nice if there was a mini grocery downtown to service not only these residential buildings but the office lunch crowd as well. Think of a Tesco Express in the UK. Great place to pop in grab some decent sandwiches / fruit + whatever small items you might need for dinner that night. For those not familiar with a Tesco Express, they're small - like the size of a Banana Republic.

One close to the CORE mall/Stephen Ave and Eau Claire should do it nicely.

oh... so kind of like Sunterra?

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Sorry, but this just comes across as the dated "I should be able to drive my car to work" Calgarian argument that has stalled proper development in this city for decades.

We are finally in a renaissance period of smart economic growth and development and IOL goes ahead and totally bucks the trend.

It has nothing to do with cars, and everything to do with lost time. My wife works downtown, she hates the time wasted getting there and back every day. We've got a transit system that either works on solving problems 20 years too late, or focuses on expanding in to lower priority areas (I'm looking at you West LRT).

Smart growth is moving economic development OUT of the downtown core. Imperial is doing it right.

[SebC]

If you want to achieve low transit times, you need density. An office tower is denser than an office block. Particularly if that block has a big parking lot.