[News] 2013 NHL Draft Results: Top 10 Team Performances - Did the Flames Make the Cut? (THW)

[BloodFetish]

Fans and media just love to play jigsaw puzzles. Let's set this up...

Puzzle piece #1: Shinkaruk is a skilled forward. Calgary needs skilled forwards!

Puzzle piece #2: Shinkaruk is a Calgary kid. Media loves to use the home-town piece whenever possible. Why, the story practically writes itself!

Puzzle piece #3: Shinkaruk was miraculously available at spot #22. Surely this is destiny!

If Shinkaruk was from Winnibago, Minnesota the Flames would be just one more team to pass on a sliding player. However, being that he's the home-town kid it becomes inconceivable to the fans and media both that Calgary would pass him up. Calgary broke our puzzle! Does not compute. Divide by zero = bad pick.

[FlameZilla]

Have to say I think that is a brutally terrible write-up by THW. Normally expect a bit more from them.

In their own 'Next Ones' article they describe Poirier as 'A More Physical Alex Tanguay'. Nothing but praise for his skill, speed, playmaking, shot & the only critique is 'consistency', which arguably applies to most prospects that age. His added experience on the RW factors into our needs as well.

Eric Roy is a steal in the 5th round. In Monahan we got the boy that everyone thought we should go for. In Klimchuck we get the local boy the media was pining for us to get.

ShinCanuck was passed over by most of the teams in the NHL. Get over it.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Dienasty

Shinkaruk dropped because of his psycho father, he used to pad his sons stats when he was the scorekeeper in minor hockey, he was busted and was banned for working the penalty box from peewee on.

On top of this hunter got to play on the first line in med hat his rookie season ( which unheard of) got to join the under 18 team, after his whl team was eliminated ( no other kid has been added to the team that late in the tourney in it's history,) and not to mention it has been rumors that his dad bribed royals coaches in bantam and midget)

There is very good reasons why the flames passed on him.

Sounds like a natural fit for the dirtbag atmosphere in Vancouver.

[Vulcan]

These ratings are all about appearances, not any actual knowledge of the players. It's obvious with this statement.

The Flames made a mammoth splash in the 3rd round selecting collossal blueliner Keegan Kanzig, the biggest player drafted who is deemed to be a project with skating and puck skill issues that need development.


The 5th round saw Calgary getting a probable steal in defenseman Eric Roy. Many projected him as a 2nd/3rd round pick. He is an extremely intelligent young man with obvious offensive upside and in definite need of refining his defensive game.


Ironically, I would have more favourably view the Flames draft had they had taken Eric Roy in the 3rd and Kanzig in the 5th. It’s odd how things works out sometimes.

[devo22]

yeah but that's just the way it goes. I'm pretty sure that Feaster would take a lot less flak from everybody if our draft looked like this:

6th - Sean Monahan
22nd - Morgan Klimchuk
28th - Emile Poirier
67th - Eric Roy
135th - Keegan Kanzig

[JiriHrdina]

What I like about Redline Report and to a lesser extent Button's list - is that it actually presents a much different list than you get from everyone else. If you read a lot of the draft publications and mock drafts you will find they are somewhat similar - same guys in the top 30 with only minor differences. This becomes what fans perceive to be "the board".

But Redline is often way different - which is more reflective of the NHL reality - that there are dramatic differences between organizations when it comes to their lists.

To put it another way if Redline really likes a certain player, chances are there's at least one NHL club out there, that also does. That's when you see guys go higher than perceived and called 'a reach'.

[Parallex]

From the articule...

I would have more favourably view the Flames draft had they had taken Eric Roy in the 3rd and Kanzig in the 5th.

... Uh huh.

Note to self: The writer of this articule is not a serious writer. Seriously? The Flames could have drafted the exact same guys just in a different order and that would have changed his opinion of their draft? I guess changing their draft order would have somehow summoned a flying unicorn to magically make them have better talent (dispite being the same damn people) .

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by devo22

yeah but that's just the way it goes. I'm pretty sure that Feaster would take a lot less flak from everybody if our draft looked like this:

6th - Sean Monahan
22nd - Morgan Klimchuk
28th - Emile Poirier
67th - Eric Roy
135th - Keegan Kanzig

If that's the case then the proverbial "everybody" is a tool. The talent is the same regardless of where they get drafted.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

What I like about Redline Report and to a lesser extent Button's list - is that it actually presents a much different list than you get from everyone else. If you read a lot of the draft publications and mock drafts you will find they are somewhat similar - same guys in the top 30 with only minor differences. This becomes what fans perceive to be "the board".

But Redline is often way different - which is more reflective of the NHL reality - that there are dramatic differences between organizations when it comes to their lists.

To put it another way if Redline really likes a certain player, chances are there's at least one NHL club out there, that also does. That's when you see guys go higher than perceived and called 'a reach'.

The reason all of these other sources are so similar is because, like Bob McKenzie, they are data aggregators and have not seen the players themselves. They are collecting information that is readily available on line, putting their unique spin on it, and then republishing it as something original. That is why I asked the question of the validity of the publications prior to the draft. Who was the publisher, what expertise is contributing to the publication, what getting of the information is done, and so on.

Would it shock you to find out that Future Considerations is run out of a residential residence in Grand Prairie, AB? Would you be shocked to learn that The Hockey Writers is run out of an apartment in St. Lambert, PQ? Would the credibility of the publications be brought into question if you found out the articles and ratings were being submitted by high school and university students with little to no hockey background? Would all of that begin to make some sense of the hype that was built around these kids and the lack of information that was posted on each player? You would think that if all of these supposed publications were getting eyes on the players, and that there were so many different experienced hockey people involved, that there would be a much greater level of diversity of opinion rather than the same rehashing of the exact same ratings.

The reason that so many people buy into the whole "reach" angle is because the rankings that come out from McKenize and THN have been rehashed and reprinted multiple times so it appears to provide consensus where no true consensus exists. If the 30 teams released their own rankings after the fact it would completely destroy the credibility of many of these draft guides and show just how useless they are outside of the top 10 picks. Poirier versus Shinkaruk is just another example of the hype machine creating controversy where none should exist.

[Huntingwhale]

One of the great things about having 3 1st round picks is that the Flames are able to take a gamble on one of the later picks. Obviously Monahan at 6 was a given. But I don't really see any issue with using any of the other first with getting Poirier. If we would have only had 1 pick that round, yeah I'd be pissed. But the Flames can afford to gamble a bit with that pick.

And as others have said, other teams passed over the guy multiple times. The Flames had 3 picks to work with. Why isn't there an uproar over those other teams passing over him? The ONLY reason this is an issue, is because Shinkaruk is from Calgary. That is the only reason this is even an issue.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Not impressed by the analysis.

The bottom line to me is how many of the teams that are ranked above the Flames would I be comfortable trading complete drafts with? Maybe COL and BUF. No way I trade the Flames picks for most of the teams ranked above the Flames in this article.

To me that makes the analysis pretty bad. Most of these post draft lists aren't giving teams enough credit for getting the top 10 talents like Monahan.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by devo22

yeah but that's just the way it goes. I'm pretty sure that Feaster would take a lot less flak from everybody if our draft looked like this:

6th - Sean Monahan
22nd - Morgan Klimchuk
28th - Emile Poirier
67th - Eric Roy
135th - Keegan Kanzig

Feaster's major role is holding or trading the picks. The last two drafts are all Weisbrod. What is looking like the best draft of the last decade or longer for the Flames is still the 2011 draft which was essentially Button. Almost all the picks made that draft look like promising professional players wether they be AHL or NHL.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Feaster's major role is holding or trading the picks. The last two drafts are all Weisbrod. What is looking like the best draft of the last decade or longer for the Flames is still the 2011 draft which was essentially Button. Almost all the picks made that draft look like promising professional players wether they be AHL or NHL.

2012 was probably just as good in the long run. Jankowski, Sieloff, Gillies, Kulak, Culkin, Gordon, Deblouw.

Since Feaster has taken over and has given more reign to the scouting staff to make their picks the drafts have looked more promising. Whether that turns into results remains to be seen.

One thing that seemed evident this year was a slight change in strategy. Seemed like they placed more of an emphasis on size and grit when scouting this year.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

2012 was probably just as good in the long run. Jankowski, Sieloff, Gillies, Kulak, Culkin, Gordon, Deblouw.

Since Feaster has taken over and has given more reign to the scouting staff to make their picks the drafts have looked more promising. Whether that turns into results remains to be seen.

One thing that seemed evident this year was a slight change in strategy. Seemed like they placed more of an emphasis on size and grit when scouting this year.

IMO the 2011 class is considerably better than 2012 when you look at the players picked from top to bottom.

RD 1 - Baertschi
RD 2 - Granlund
RD 2 - Wotherspoon
RD 4 - Gaudreau
RD 6 - Brossoit

Not sure how much more they could have got out of that draft given their picks. Pretty well nailed every one of them.

I agree in that size looked to be more of a priority this draft especially compare to 2011 where skill seemed to take precedence over size.

[Gary83]

Originally Posted by devo22

yeah but that's just the way it goes. I'm pretty sure that Feaster would take a lot less flak from everybody if our draft looked like this:

6th - Sean Monahan
22nd - Morgan Klimchuk
28th - Emile Poirier
67th - Eric Roy
135th - Keegan Kanzig

Sadly this seems to be true.

I don't think Montreal passes on Poirier if given the chance.

I was livid about the Poirier pick at the time I found out, but I also knew absolutely nothing about him.

Very happy with the first round, Kanzig and Harrison are still head scratchers for me, love getting Roy in the fifth.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by New Era

The reason all of these other sources are so similar is because, like Bob McKenzie, they are data aggregators and have not seen the players themselves. They are collecting information that is readily available on line, putting their unique spin on it, and then republishing it as something original. That is why I asked the question of the validity of the publications prior to the draft. Who was the publisher, what expertise is contributing to the publication, what getting of the information is done, and so on.

Would it shock you to find out that Future Considerations is run out of a residential residence in Grand Prairie, AB? Would you be shocked to learn that The Hockey Writers is run out of an apartment in St. Lambert, PQ? Would the credibility of the publications be brought into question if you found out the articles and ratings were being submitted by high school and university students with little to no hockey background? Would all of that begin to make some sense of the hype that was built around these kids and the lack of information that was posted on each player? You would think that if all of these supposed publications were getting eyes on the players, and that there were so many different experienced hockey people involved, that there would be a much greater level of diversity of opinion rather than the same rehashing of the exact same ratings.

The reason that so many people buy into the whole "reach" angle is because the rankings that come out from McKenize and THN have been rehashed and reprinted multiple times so it appears to provide consensus where no true consensus exists. If the 30 teams released their own rankings after the fact it would completely destroy the credibility of many of these draft guides and show just how useless they are outside of the top 10 picks. Poirier versus Shinkaruk is just another example of the hype machine creating controversy where none should exist.

Well said. Amen.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by fotze

I always find it puzzling when some random people's opinions on a blog/fansite/etc somehow carry any more weight than any poster here or guy on the street. Because it is written in an article format, that means they have watched players play and have a scouting resume?

To be fair, people who can write long, readable articles on a topic in a consistent basis generally are more worth listening to in comparison to the people who can't. Just one of those things.

That said, there are topics which are inherently worthless, but apparently have to be written about. Like post-draft analysis the day after it happened.

I would love it if somebody took up the habit of doing a yearly post-draft analysis that looked at for example drafts from 2-4 years ago. That would actually be useful and provide some insight into teams drafting and development.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

What I like about Redline Report and to a lesser extent Button's list - is that it actually presents a much different list than you get from everyone else. If you read a lot of the draft publications and mock drafts you will find they are somewhat similar - same guys in the top 30 with only minor differences. This becomes what fans perceive to be "the board".

But Redline is often way different - which is more reflective of the NHL reality - that there are dramatic differences between organizations when it comes to their lists.

To put it another way if Redline really likes a certain player, chances are there's at least one NHL club out there, that also does. That's when you see guys go higher than perceived and called 'a reach'.

I like Redline too, but they also ranked Kirill Petrov 8th overall and he was selected in the 3rd round.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by FAN

I like Redline too, but they also ranked Kirill Petrov 8th overall and he was selected in the 3rd round.

Steal for the Islanders!

[cral12]

Originally Posted by Hells Bells

If Detroit or Boston passed on a hometown kid they wouldn't make this big of a fuss about it and there are far fewer NHL players from those areas.

It's simply because they're the Calgary Flames. The same reason TSN analysts tore Feaster to shreds for going off the board and then 5 minutes later they commend other GM's for doing the same thing.

Fact is, the national media hates the Calgary Flames. Anyone that tries to say otherwise is simply being delusional.

Can't speak for others, but for me this has little to do with Shinkaruk being a hometown kid - might have been a bonus, but you draft him because of the player he is and will be, not for where he's from.

Yes, other teams passed on him - does that mean the Flames had to as well? You make decisions based on your own assessments. Though he was rated by some in or near the top 10 others had him in the 20s vicinity.

I will still maintain, though it has been discussed ad nauseum, that the Flames should have drafted Shinkaruk right there. But...I do hope they got it right in Poirier. Though I try to stay neutral, I have been a life long Flames fan and remain as such.

Maybe there's something to the Shinkaruk rumoured "attitude" issue. From what I've seen (I've seen him play live countless times and chatted with him as well), I don't really get it. I don't mind a little "attitude", if attitude means bringing it each and every shift and wanting to be a difference maker - which Hunter does.

I've chatted with those who have had Poirier ranked higher than most. HockeyProspect.com (another independant scouting agency) had him ranked 1st round (26th I think) with Hunter ranked lower than most (24th). They thought Poirier really emerged in the 2nd half of the season and loved him as a prospect. That's very positive. The problem though is that they do say he has to work on shift to shift consistency. That was a little troubling for me to see...Still, hope Flames nailed it and can make many (self included) eat our words. I really do hope so.