Our 6th Overall Pick: Elias Lindholm or Sean Monahan?

[FlameZilla]

^^^^ incorrect

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by New Era

Don't want to blow a top 10 pick on a Daymond Langkow. Daymond Langkows are available through trade. Number one centers are not. If Monahan doesn't project as a top line player or do anything at an exceptional level, then stay the hell away from him.

This team needs top end talent. Lindholm has been identified as having exceptional talent. The big thing Monahan has going for him is he's big, Canadian and plays in the OHL/QMJHL scouting hub of Ottawa. The more I read and hear about this kid the more I believe he is an average player riding a wave of hype. I'm terrified the Flames draft him and end up with another Rob Niedermayer or (worse) an Eric Nystrom. I don't want guys that have potential to be good, I want guys that have potential to be great. I'm not getting the "great" potential vibe from Monahan.

They're both potential #1 centres. Potential being the key word. They have both been ranked near the top end of the 2013 draft since I started following the scouting reports in October, but Monahan especially was touted as the guy who could be an upset 1st overall pick come the draft. I've seen it suggested that his stock has actually dropped because of this over-scouting in the 'hub' that in Ontario.

Nystrom was never touted as being anything other than a 3rd liner. It was a weak draft year, so at 10th overall getting a gritty 3rd liner was actually a result. This is an exceptional draft year, possibly the best in a decade. These are blue chip prospects ranked at the very top of their class, so if Sean Monahan is a Rob Niedermayer or a Nystrom then there should be a lot of scouts league-wide looking for other jobs.

[Badger Bob]

Originally Posted by New Era

I'm terrified the Flames draft him and end up with another Rob Niedermayer or (worse) an Eric Nystrom.

Why are you even mentioning Rob Niedermeyer in this context? The Flames aren't even the NHL team that drafted him.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

^^^^ incorrect

Whats incorrect?

[moon]

Originally Posted by New Era

Don't want to blow a top 10 pick on a Daymond Langkow. Daymond Langkows are available through trade. Number one centers are not. If Monahan doesn't project as a top line player or do anything at an exceptional level, then stay the hell away from him.

This team needs top end talent. Lindholm has been identified as having exceptional talent. The big thing Monahan has going for him is he's big, Canadian and plays in the OHL/QMJHL scouting hub of Ottawa. The more I read and hear about this kid the more I believe he is an average player riding a wave of hype. I'm terrified the Flames draft him and end up with another Rob Niedermayer or (worse) an Eric Nystrom. I don't want guys that have potential to be good, I want guys that have potential to be great. I'm not getting the "great" potential vibe from Monahan.

The exact same thing could be said about Lindholm. And Monahan has been identified as having exceptional skill.

Odd stance to take when pretty much every scouting report has these two guys as equals both with the same upside and same likelihood of achieving it. Obviously they have small differences in their games that can make someone like one over the other but suggesting that Monahan is a 2nd line center while Lindholm is an offensive dynamo is not just odd it is flat out wrong.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Ville Niemenien at age 35 was the leading scorer on Barkov's team.

Barkov was not dominating.... It is significant that he was playing senior hockey as a 16-17 year old but he was not dominating....



It is just too hard to base the guys play against Canadian senior level hockey league.

The only thing that we really have comparing apples to apples is the WJC where he got 7 pts in 6 games..... Armia and Marcus Granlund got 12 pts in 6 games.

The league that Barkov dominated with 48 pts in 53 games? Little Marcus Granlund as a 19 year old had 34 pts in 47 games.

Mickael Granlund was drafted out of that league in 2010 with 40 pts in 43 games. 3 full seasons later he still is not a full time NHLer or dominating the AHL to the extent that Kolanos dominated in 2010-11


Will Barkov adapt to the culture and the smaller ice...?

If he is not NHL ready.... which I doubt that he is next year where will he play???? AHL for 60k /year? or the CHL for free?

He was the 2nd overall pick in the KHL draft 2012 year. Nichuskin was #11. Zadorov, who came to play in the OHL was #4.


If the Flames are moving up it should not to be to pick Barkov over Monahan.

Barkov is a better prospect now than what Granlund was at the same age. Everyone feels Barkov is NHL ready. There are very few players in the NHL that have become elite within their first 4 years. Scouts have little doubt that at the very least, Barkov will be in the NHL and contributing quickly.

He has the 'elite' size, skill and hockey IQ already - at 17 years of age (one of the very youngest in the draft). What he accomplished this year in the Finnish league was unreal, and he is one of the prospects this draft who seems able to translate very well into the NHL.

Why you don't agree is a bit perplexing. You compare him to other Euros who's major weaknesses involved either skating or size (or sometimes a combination of the two). Barkov has average to above average skating. Mikael Granlund had below average skating, and a below average physique (just phenomenally high hockey sense and skill).

Also, so what if it takes Barkov 4 years (which I disagree with) to become an effective NHL player? Will the Flames be competing for a cup in that timeframe? I am most concerned with the Flames picking the very best players at whatever position that could become elite players.

Barkov doesn't seem to have any weaknesses to his game, and the kid is one of the youngest, and he is big already. He did dominate - he plays a high-end 2-way game at a professional level. That is a HUGE difference already when you are comparing him to a Marcus Granlund (or his brother), Armia, Kolanos (seriously? You are throwing a career AHL vet who is a career AHL vet because of his offence and absolutely nothing else to his game, and his CONSIDERABLY older when comparing rookies coming over to North America?)

Comparing Barkov to the other players on the WJC roster is also extremely short-sighted. I guess MacKinnon is going to take 4+ years as well, right?

Barkov is a high-end two-way center with size, elite hockey IQ, playmaking ability, scoring and brings a mature and physical game at the young age of 17. You seriously think it is going to take 4+ years and that the Flames should even avoid picking him if by some miracle he happens to be there at 6? I like Monahan, but there is a reason why every single scouting service out there is ranking Barkov ahead of him - and most scouting services are saying there is a drop-off in talent after him (or Nichushkin). There is RARELY a player this young, this big, and who plays such a complete and mature game available in any draft.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Kyle Woodlief of Redline Report on the Flames choosing between Monahan/Lindholm.

"Red Line: Kevin: If we were drafting at #6 overall, the debate would definitely come down to those two guys for us, plus maybe Darnell Nurse if we were looking at the blue line. I think it will be hard for the Flames to pass on a big, smooth centre with playmaking ability who can be a legitimate first liner - that's exactly what they need. Monahan by a whisker."

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by moon

The exact same thing could be said about Lindholm. And Monahan has been identified as having exceptional skill.

Odd stance to take when pretty much every scouting report has these two guys as equals both with the same upside and same likelihood of achieving it. Obviously they have small differences in their games that can make someone like one over the other but suggesting that Monahan is a 2nd line center while Lindholm is an offensive dynamo is not just odd it is flat out wrong.

Agreed. The Hockey News says Monahan has the second best hockey sense (behind drouin i think?) and when you consider the team he plays for, his stats look pretty darn good. He had the same point totals last year as he did this year (albeit in 4 more games) which shows how good his numbers would have been had the talent level of the 67s not gone down a notch or two. If you put him on the Knights or Colts who knows......

[Stay Golden]

1st choice Monahan
2nd choice Lindholm
3rd choice Horvat
4th choice hope that Barkov falls into Feaster's hands.
5th choice hope that Car or NSH take Nichkushkin.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

1st choice Monahan
2nd choice Lindholm
3rd choice Horvat
4th choice hope that Barkov falls into Feaster's hands.
5th choice hope that Car or NSH take Nichkushkin.

They better, or there may be no Monahan availible at 6

[the_only_turek_fan]

Roger Millions ‏@RogMillions 6m Sean Monahan on possibly going to rebuilding #Flames #NHLDraft. "I enjoy the challenge of being part of a growing team, helping lead."

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Roger Millions ‏@RogMillions 6m Sean Monahan on possibly going to rebuilding #Flames #NHLDraft. "I enjoy the challenge of being part of a growing team, helping lead."

Sounds good to me! I hope we can have the thread on Sunday Welcome to the C of Red Sean Monahan.

[foshizzle11]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Sounds good to me! I hope we can have the thread on Sunday Welcome to the C of Red Sean Monahan.

I agree with this as well, would be sweet.

[Icon]

The more I read about Monahan the more I hope he's who we pick.

I still say if Monahan was on a better team this past season he'd be in the 1st overall discussion. Seems to have the skills, the right attitude, work ethic, etc.

MacKinnon
Jones
Drouin
Barkov
Nichuskin
Monahan

is what I'm hoping for.

[JJsChaos]

I've thought about it a lot, and it sounds like Monahan, Drouin, Barkov will be around at 6 (fingers crossed). If we pick any of them I'm jacked.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by JJsChaos

I've thought about it a lot, and it sounds like Monahan, Drouin, Barkov will be around at 6 (fingers crossed). If we pick any of them I'm jacked.

Or none of them will:

MacKinnon
Jones
Drouin
Barkov
Monahan

Which would leave us picking between Lindholm, Nurse, Hovat, Nichuskin, other

[The Swedish Flame]

Just read an interview with Lindholm in Swedish "Aftonbladet". What he said:

On being predicted to go early in the draft: "They say that, but at the same time I don't want to guess myself [on where he will go]."

On being in the draft: "I've been looking forward to this moment my entire life, and here I am. It's going to be really fun. I'm probably going to shake my butt off on Sunday"

On being picked by either Nashville, Carolina, Calgary, Edmonton or Buffalo: "I have an idea about what teams I might end up in and I'm going to have four meetings with NHL-clubs before the draft. I don't really know what to expect though."

On what team that he'd rather get drafted by: "Sometimes I lean Canadian, other times toward a team from some place warm. Honestly though, it doesn't really matter in the end. I'm just happy to be here"

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by The Swedish Flame

On what team that he'd rather get drafted by: "Sometimes I lean Canadian, other times toward a team from some place warm.

Sorry, Buffalo.

[Max Cow Disease]

Originally Posted by The Swedish Flame

I'm probably going to shake my butt off on Sunday"

I'd been a huge proponent of Lindholm until now, but this leaves me concerned...

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Max Cow Disease

I'd been a huge proponent of Lindholm until now, but this leaves me concerned...

Because a kid is anxious at the draft?