[Trade] Flames acquire Shane O'Brien and David Jones for Tanguay and Sarich

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I still feel like we should have picked up a second

That's great but this isn't a video game.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Walter Reed

Vlad, you may be right with respect to Tanguay and his commitment level but I guess I just find that label you used a particularly ugly term to apply to a basically decent person. My criticism was not meant for you in particular, some here use it without giving it much thought, I myself almost equate the term to calling a black person a n****r. Its a poor adjective.

Fair enough - let me rephrase that - he is a selfish player, who is primarily concerned about his stats and not the well-being of the team. Based on his track record, he does not respond well to any sort of adversity. That does not preclude him from being a perfectly nice guy on a personal level. Still, would not want this sort of influence around a rebuilding team.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Okay throw last year out.....

The year before Tanguay had 13 goals and 49 pts (1 goal 15 points on the PP) playing 19 minutes a game on 1st power play . His line mates were Iginla 67 pts and Jokinen 61 pts.


Jones 20 goals 37 points (3 goals 6 pts on the PP) playing 15 minutes a game with Statsny 53 pts and Mcginn/Hejduk as line mates.

Tanguay had 22 hits, Jones 85.


If this trade is made last off season the Flames clear cut winners..... even before the 5 year age difference.

This trade was not made last season so it is moot. Also when Tangs got 49 points he only played 64 games.

I don't think its a terrible trade, but for those posters trying to convince themselves that this trade was an all out win.....keep drinking the koolaid.

Any time you pick up a untradeable contract (Jones) it is not a win. I wanted Tangs off this team more than most but, he still earns his paycheque by being a 60 point player for $3.5 million. Could the flames get a 2nd for him? Hell no. But he was not a buyout contract and at worst would be picked up on waivers. 60 point players at $3.5 million do not pass through waivers.

Jones easily would pass through waivers. $4 million for a guy that is a 20-20 player when playing with above average talent. At $4million and that point production, he would need to hit everything that moves. He does not. If posters think Jones is going to be in the corners laying big checks out, you are in for a surprise. If Jones does not get back his speed, he will be lucky to get 15 goals with the flames considering the talent he will be playing with.

More than likely Jones is going to be the new whipping boy in less than a year, when posters see what $4 million players from other teams gets you. The one thing you can say is Jones will always have a place on this team for the rest of his contract, because the flames have no RW prospects and more than likely will loose Stempniak at the deadline.

Don't get me wrong the trade makes sense for on ice purposes, but off ice (contract) not so much. If the flames were not in a rebuild and were still near cap max like years past , there is not a chance in hell that this trade is made.

[schteve_d]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

This trade was not made last season so it is moot. Also when Tangs got 49 points he only played 64 games.

I don't think its a terrible trade, but for those posters trying to convince themselves that this trade was an all out win.....keep drinking the koolaid.

Any time you pick up a untradeable contract (Jones) it is not a win. I wanted Tangs off this team more than most but, he still earns his paycheque by being a 60 point player for $3.5 million. Could the flames get a 2nd for him? Hell no. But he was not a buyout contract and at worst would be picked up on waivers. 60 point players at $3.5 million do not pass through waivers.

Jones easily would pass through waivers. $4 million for a guy that is a 20-20 player when playing with above average talent. At $4million and that point production, he would need to hit everything that moves. He does not. If posters think Jones is going to be in the corners laying big checks out, you are in for a surprise. If Jones does not get back his speed, he will be lucky to get 15 goals with the flames considering the talent he will be playing with.

More than likely Jones is going to be the new whipping boy in less than a year, when posters see what $4 million players from other teams gets you. The one thing you can say is Jones will always have a place on this team for the rest of his contract, because the flames have no RW prospects and more than likely will loose Stempniak at the deadline.

Don't get me wrong the trade makes sense for on ice purposes, but off ice (contract) not so much. If the flames were not in a rebuild and were still near cap max like years past , there is not a chance in hell that this trade is made.

But we are in a rebuild and we are not near the cap so the point is moot, no?

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Any time you pick up a untradeable contract (Jones) it is not a win. I wanted Tangs off this team more than most but, he still earns his paycheque by being a 60 point player for $3.5 million.

maybe Jones isn't going to get much better than the past couple years, but at least I can still see him putting up similar numbers for a while. Tangs on the other hand, I severely doubt will continue being that 60 point bargain player as he goes on to his mid-30's. unless your name is Teemu, it's a bad bet to assume anything close to flat production at this stage.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

maybe Jones isn't going to get much better than the past couple years, but at least I can still see him putting up similar numbers for a while. Tangs on the other hand, I severely doubt will continue being that 60 point bargain player as he goes on to his mid-30's. unless your name is Teemu, it's a bad bet to assume anything close to flat production at this stage.

I don't see why Tangs will not get 60 points for the next 2 years? Look at the talent level he will be playing with. Even the 2nd line players have more talent than what the flames first line had last year. Is he still going to float? You can bet your sweet ass he is, but the points will come.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by schteve_d

But we are in a rebuild and we are not near the cap so the point is moot, no?

It depends where we are in 2015. If we are not closer to the cap at that point, then we are doing it wrong. I think there is a pretty good chance that the Jones contract is an anchor at that point.

Having cap space shouldn't be an excuse to blow it on negative assets with 3 years left on a deal. I'd rather see someone from the farm thrown in there to sink or swim in the mean time.

[Plett25]

This trade is a win for the Flames.

If we're talking about team X that had lots of RW depth and no LW depth and team X trades Tanguay for Jones, team X lost the trade. But the Flames are not team X.

Where did Tanguay fit on the Flame's depth chart? The Flames have 2 small/skilled LW's ahead of him. Sven needs the minutes for development and Hudler is younger. Glencross is the closest thing the Flames have to a power forward LW.

So I'd slot Tanguay in behind Hudler, Sven and Glencross. Tanguay has some skills, but where were the Flames supposed to play him? On the 4th line?

Would Jones pass through waivers? Kind of. If you could separate the player from the contract, Jones' contract would pass through waivers, but Jones the player would not. He's a serviceable player with a bad contract.

[schteve_d]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It depends where we are in 2015. If we are not closer to the cap at that point, then we are doing it wrong. I think there is a pretty good chance that the Jones contract is an anchor at that point.

Having cap space shouldn't be an excuse to blow it on negative assets with 3 years left on a deal. I'd rather see someone from the farm thrown in there to sink or swim in the mean time.

I'm optimistic that Jones can return somewhat to form and we can certainly use his size.

If the contract is the concern in the future, which I can't argue with, then remember that for every year he plays for us, the easier it is to get rid of that contract with less time remaining.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I don't see why Tangs will not get 60 points for the next 2 years? Look at the talent level he will be playing with. Even the 2nd line players have more talent than what the flames first line had last year. Is he still going to float? You can bet your sweet ass he is, but the points will come.

assuming the coach stubbornly keeps him on those top 2 lines regardless of performance. but if he starts falling behind his linemates then he could get shuffled around, ice time reduced, etc. just like Iggy's penguin experience.

if tangs maintains 60 points till the end of his contract I wouldn't be super shocked either, I'm just going with the general trend of all players his age.

[Fire]

It won't be long before Tanguay is sulking in Colorado by playing on the 3rd line. I think Roy will get quite annoyed watching him play this season.

[the_only_turek_fan]

A few points here that most have already mentioned:

1. BOTH players wanted out.
2. Sarich had NO value. I love the guy because he is a old school guy that always shows up to play, but it was clear that he was not in Hartley's plans and it was also clear he wanted out.
3. Alex Tanguay's sole purpose of being here was to pass the puck to Iginla. Iginla is now gone, and Alex's role becomes obsolete.
4. David Jones scored 47 goals between 2010 and 2012. If he can get 50-60 in the next three seasons I will be a happy camper. He is 6'2", 28 years of age, and has an effort level twice that of Tanguay's.
5. O'Brein is meh. But he is younger.

[Nittmo]

May as well gut the team and the building at the same time...
This team lacked grit last year. This trade, plus a good long look at Akim aliu, will build toward making this team extremely un-pleasant to play against

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Fire

It won't be long before Tanguay is sulking in Colorado by playing on the 3rd line. I think Roy will get quite annoyed watching him play this season.

I doubt he will be sulking because he will be picking up points. The Av's are not stupid they know Tangs does not play a 200' game.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by devo22

G) again, contracts: Calgary was widely known as "NTC heaven" some time ago. Well, it doesn't seem to be that bad anymore. The Flames have shipped out Iginla, Bouwmeester, Tanguay and Sarich, and with Kiprusoff's apparent retirement that's FIVE of those NTC/NMCs off the books within a couple months. The only players left with such clauses are: Cammalleri, Stajan, Glencross, Wideman and Giordano. Cammalleri and Stajan will come off the books after this season the latest, but with Cammy being part of trade rumours, I could see him gone much earlier. Glencross has earned the clause because he obviously took a huge paycut to stay in Calgary and Giordano is probably our next captain ... no big harm here. Wideman is debatable but the "give out clauses like candy" era finally seems to be over.

...?

NTC/NMC's (including Sarich and Tanguay's) were both given out in the past 2 years under the Feaster regime. Can't see how we're seeing that it is over.

[Ark2]

Not the worst trade that Feaster has made (or at least attempted to make) but it feels like this did slightly more damage than it did good. With Tanguay's contract being what it is, I doubt that he has much value right now, but I can also see him bouncing back with the Av's and putting up another 60ish point season. I guess we'll never know if he could be capable of doing that with the Flames this year had he not been traded, but I think it would have at least been worth the gamble. Tell him the only way he gets moved is if he puts up a good 60 games with the Flames and then get moved at the deadline, or he can rot here while the team rebuilds and we use his salary to stay above the cap floor. Perhaps that's harsh, but I would prefer that over moving him for two players on negative value contracts that don't really address any current needs (we need size AND skill, not just talentless size).

All that aside, I think that years from now, we will look back at Feaster and realize that he is one of the most important figures in the franchise's history. The work that he is doing right now is basically ensuring that we are a bottom feeder for at least the next 2 years, and gives us a huge edge in being able to draft Connor McDavid in 2015. When you consider that we likely get a top 3 draft position in 2014 (which looks to be very strong as well), I can see us being a Stanley Cup contender by 2017. Without Feaster and his horrible trades/signings/asset management, this is not even a remote possibility, so while it hurts to read about his blunders right now, I think it will be worth it in the not too distant future. Hang in there guys, the payoff is coming!

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Fire

It won't be long before Tanguay is sulking in Colorado by playing on the 3rd line. I think Roy will get quite annoyed watching him play this season.

haha. yeah because Roy never sulked before....

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by debil

Why can't we let them go for nothing? Why taking brutal 4MM 3Y contract ? How does this help to rebuild the team?

What team out there is going to take 5.5 million in salary in mid 30's veterans without sending salary back?

None of them.

We already did a few salary dumping moves. This move did not need to be a salary dump and I'm not sure why some people think every move now needs to be a dump.

Like has been said the trade is fairly equal. At the same time we get younger and trade a LW which we have too many of for a RW which we don't have many of.

In old school CP terminology I would class this close to a dufus for dufus trade. One could characterize it as shuffling deck chairs on the titanic.

Really I don't think Tanguay had the trade value some think he should have. Limited teams interested no doubt.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

To the Avs:

Alex Tanguay
Pros: Highly skilled player with sick hands and incredible passing skills. Has been known at times to be a top tier talent. Has an excellent shot but rarely uses it. Is a decent enough skater to keep up with the younger players. Is a very good powerplay player.

Cons: Is small and does not play a physical game. Lacks motivation to be a highly competitive player throughout a full season. Will often take many nights off throughout the year. While he has the attitude of a professional, he's more of a hired gun at this point in his career and is rarely considered a strong locker room presence. Is on the downside of his career, or "post-apex" if you like.

Cory Sarich
Pros: Is a tough and physical player to play against, especially in front of the net, and rarely quits on a play. Can lay out a huge hit now and then. Is solid in his own zone and positionally sound despite his slow foot speed. Will drop the gloves to defend his teammates. Is a good secondary leader for any team.

Cons: Is in the bottom 10% in the league for foot speed. His age and lack of mobility mean he can often get exposed if he doesn't have a quick partner to play with. Can't log more than 3rd pairing minutes effectively. Has almost zero offensive prowess to speak of.

To the Flames:
David Jones
Pros: Has good size and a history of being a decent goal scorer, especially in front of the net. Has had bouts of significant injuries, but his best years have followed those injuries. Is on the right side of 30. Can lay a big body check from time to time. Is known to be a good penalty killer.

Cons: Had a down year last year on a poor Avalanche team. His contract is large compared to his output and usefulness. Is rumoured to have been a distraction in the locker room. Is rumoured to be an inconsistent player that has both good hot streaks and bad cold streaks. Is rumoured to have trouble with his knees, limiting his speed and agility.

Shane O'Brien
Pros: Possesses good size and plays a physical in-your-face game. Can be an agitator as well as an enforcer. Plays solid defense for a 3rd pairing with decent mobility for his size. Is more often than not a plus player. Is on the right side of 30.

Cons: Has been suspended multiple times in his career and will often step over the line with dirty plays and penalties. Can be a distraction at times with his in-your-face style. Has been rumoured to be a major distraction in the locker room. Is limited to bottom pairing minutes in terms of ability and can be considered a healthy scratch for most teams.

Looking at this up front I feel that the Avs got the best talent in the deal, but the trade does work nicely for both teams at filling some holes. The Flames are simply trying to ice a more balanced roster that might be more competitive during a rebuilding period. Too many small, skilled, left wingers and not enough of any other type of player made this trade a necessity. Add to that the idea of getting Younger, Tougher, and Bigger and this trade makes sense.

Not sure if Jones is a Bourque or a Glencross, or possibly better than either player, but I will withhold judgement until I see him play 20 or so games. O'Brien I'm aware of what he brings, and really he's just a more mobile and younger Sarich who is actually a really nasty character to play against. Cundari and O'Brien our 3rd pairing? Yikes for the opposition.

[Diemenz]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Without Feaster and his horrible trades/signings/asset management, this is not even a remote possibility, so while it hurts to read about his blunders right now, I think it will be worth it in the not too distant future. Hang in there guys, the payoff is coming!

When someone is handed a bag of potatoes don't expect them to take it to the market and turn it into a cow and 2 pigs.

Asset management? For the last few years everyone has known that Calgary has had little to no assets. Thinking that a package of two 30+ declining players will bring back a top 40 pick or top 6 player is just asinine.