Valeri Nichushkin Discussion

[nightfx]

Originally Posted by SebC

I'm not against him because I think he's a flight risk, I'm against him because he doesn't put up enough points (in the KHL, and in WJC). Don't care how big, fast and slick he is if he doesn't score.

Not sure what you're expecting but he has about as much points as Malkin and OV had in their draft year

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by SebC

I'm not against him because I think he's a flight risk, I'm against him because he doesn't put up enough points (in the KHL, and in WJC). Don't care how big, fast and slick he is if he doesn't score.

He was a 16 year old playing against men, do you think Monahan puts up the same numbers he did in the OHL if he played against competition better than the AHL? Absolutely not.

Kuznetsov had 8 in 35, Taraksenko 24 in 42, Malkin 12 in 34, and Ovechkin 24 in 53 in their draft years. Nichuskin's 6 in 18 is not half bad for someone who was 17 whilst he played against men, and averaged 8:20 of ice time a game. Oh and he played half the season against many NHL cast offs, which none of the aforementioned did.

[drPepper1]

I'm not sure if I want a player who is a hybrid of ovechkin/malkin or a player being compared to forsberg..

what i do know is i hate that the oilers will likely end up with a gem

[Stay Golden]

the KHL is a soft league compared to the NHL not to mention many of the (men) that are ex aged NHL players and or players couldn't cut the physical play of the NHL.
I don't put much merit with the KHL compared to the NHL at all.

[skudr248]

Pretty interested in some of the above posters have actually watched a KHL game in their lives before, let alone follow the league, for some of you calling it a "soft, inexperienced" league ... you would know how?

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

the KHL is a soft league compared to the NHL not to mention many of the (men) that are ex aged NHL players and or players couldn't cut the physical play of the NHL.
I don't put much merit with the KHL compared to the NHL at all.

Nobody is arguing that. What is undeniable though is that the KHL is better than any junior league in North America, and the 2nd best league in the world. Therefore trying to use statistics to demean a prospect that had inferior stats in the KHL against prospects that have huge stats in the CHL is outrageous.

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by skudr248

Pretty interested in some of the above posters have actually watched a KHL game in their lives before, let alone follow the league, for some of you calling it a "soft, inexperienced" league ... you would know how?

Don Cherry told them and he's a Russian hockey specialist.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Dagger

Nobody is arguing that. What is undeniable though is that the KHL is better than any junior league in North America, and the 2nd best league in the world. Therefore trying to use statistics to demean a prospect that had inferior stats in the KHL against prospects that have huge stats in the CHL is outrageous.

I would be far much more happy with Monahan or Lindholm.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

He was 17 years old playing in the 2nd best men's league in the world. He's clearly doing something right, and when he grows into his body, do you want to be on the side of I told you so or will you be happy with Sean Monahan?

lol

Tell you what, let's make a bet... there are different ways to try and measure it, none of which would be perfect, but you have to go with something. I predict that Monahan will play more games (or get more points - if you prefer) for the team that drafts him then Nichushkin will for the team that drafts him (career).

If you're interested, PM me

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Dagger

Nobody is arguing that. What is undeniable though is that the KHL is better than any junior league in North America, and the 2nd best league in the world. Therefore trying to use statistics to demean a prospect that had inferior stats in the KHL against prospects that have huge stats in the CHL is outrageous.

Well, I'm not ignoring the difference in league difficulties - that would indeed be outrageous. I'm looking at league-adjusted scoring.

Having said that, the KHL->NHL conversion factor might be underestimating the abilities of the high-end Russian picks (particularly if the guys who don't get to the NHL are registered as zeros, not sure if that's the case), so while I'm still a Lindhomie... I can see a bit more of Nichuchkin's appeal now.

Originally Posted by Dagger

Kuznetsov had 8 in 35, Taraksenko 24 in 42, Malkin 12 in 34, and Ovechkin 24 in 53 in their draft years. Nichuskin's 6 in 18 is not half bad [...]

[Erick Estrada]

Francis and the 960 boys this morning were discussing that Feaster/Weisbrod's jobs are on the line at this draft and that Nichushkin represents just too much risk to which I agree. If Monahan comes in and turns into a 2nd line center I would guess that's not going to get anyone fired but if Nichushkin is a problem they surely will.

[SofaProfessor]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

lol

Tell you what, let's make a bet... there are different ways to try and measure it, none of which would be perfect, but you have to go with something. I predict that Monahan will play more games (or get more points - if you prefer) for the team that drafts him then Nichushkin will for the team that drafts him (career).

If you're interested, PM me

I hope they both play their entire careers with one team and this ends up being the world's longest bet for a case of beer or whatever the wager is.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Francis and the 960 boys this morning were discussing that Feaster/Weisbrod's jobs are on the line at this draft and that Nichushkin represents just too much risk to which I agree. If Monahan comes in and turns into a 2nd line center I would guess that's not going to get anyone fired but if Nichushkin is a problem they surely will.

The only thing I think you could counter with is that Nichuskin looks like he could play next year and Monahan and especially Lindholm may not make the team until it is already too late for Feaster/Weisbrod.

So perhaps there is some desire to get Nichuskin and have him play right from the start to have that to point to when they are up for review next June after another bottom of the standings finish.

[Bourque's Twin]

Originally Posted by moon

The only thing I think you could counter with is that Nichuskin looks like he could play next year and Monahan and especially Lindholm may not make the team until it is already too late for Feaster/Weisbrod.

So perhaps there is some desire to get Nichuskin and have him play right from the start to have that to point to when they are up for review next June after another bottom of the standings finish.

That's a great point. I've jumped on the Nichushkin bandwagon because I think he will be a guy who can immediately jump in next year.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

That's a great point. I've jumped on the Nichushkin bandwagon because I think he will be a guy who can immediately jump in next year.

This the worst reason to draft him

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by moon

So perhaps there is some desire to get Nichuskin and have him play right from the start to have that to point to when they are up for review next June after another bottom of the standings finish.

That's a good point as it seems the Flames aren't looking past next season with the emphasis on having to play now. With the rumours of the Flames looking at filling a position in hockey operations these guys are probably looking preserving their jobs with some short term ascendancy.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Francis and the 960 boys this morning were discussing that Feaster/Weisbrod's jobs are on the line at this draft and that Nichushkin represents just too much risk to which I agree. If Monahan comes in and turns into a 2nd line center I would guess that's not going to get anyone fired but if Nichushkin is a problem they surely will.

GMs making decisions out of fear and a sense of self-preservation is never a good thing. It should always be about what is best for the club even if they won't be around to enjoy it.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

GMs making decisions out of fear and a sense of self-preservation is never a good thing. It should always be about what is best for the club even if they won't be around to enjoy it.

That's what the Jankowski pick was all about. What's best long term.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

GMs making decisions out of fear and a sense of self-preservation is never a good thing. It should always be about what is best for the club even if they won't be around to enjoy it.

Which is why we should have moved out Feaster by this point. The guy is going to do something detrimental in the name of self preservation (not saying at this draft, but it will come). He knows this is his last chance as a GM.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

GMs making decisions out of fear and a sense of self-preservation is never a good thing. It should always be about what is best for the club even if they won't be around to enjoy it.

Hence Moon's philosophy that they just may take Nichuskin because he may be able to play initially and this may buy Feaster and Co. some additional time and worry about handling any future issues if they are lucky enough to still be employed by the team.