Do farmers always complain?

[REDVAN]

I know this might be a testy subject... but I live in Calgary. City boy, I have no intention of never living in a city. I am not interested in being a farmer or a rancher. But I know that some people on this site are farmers/ranchers or like the rural lifestyle.

My question is, for those of you who are or know farmers... is why do I see on the news every year that there is not enough rain, there is too much rain, there are not enough bugs, there are too many bugs, the sun only shone for 123 summer days and I needed 124 sunny days to make a profit etc.

What are the idea conditions for farmers, because I always hear them complaining and never saying that "this is the best weather ever!" I am just tired of it, and want to know what will make them happy.

[Lurch]

My question is, for those of you who are or know farmers... is why do I see on the news every year that there is not enough rain, there is too much rain, there are not enough bugs, there are too many bugs, the sun only shone for 123 summer days and I needed 124 sunny days to make a profit etc.

Same reason you see clowns on the news complaining about traffic in a city, property taxes are too high, services are too few, they're closing schools, hospitals are crowded, transit sucks, housing prices are too high, blah blah blah. People are whiners and we live in a society where it is shockingly easy to just 'get by', and anyone who wants to go on the news and say "everything is just perfect for me now" just doesn't get attention.

[Bobblehead]

Lots of reasons. A big one is that this is a big country and there is lots of different weather everywhere. There is almost ALWAYS an area that has poor conditions, and as far as the media goes, that is news. Last year, Calgary and south were hit with the rains, but areas north of here have been dry.

I know what you mean, but it really all farmers aren't complaining. They just all take turns.

[REDVAN]

Now that I think of it, that is true. Most of the people on the news deserve a big slap.

[calculoso]

The biggest reason:

Prices are so low that EVERYTHING has to be perfect for a profit to be made. Not even a huge profit, but any profit at all.

It does not pay to be a farmer. My uncle doesn't even want to put in a crop because he pretty much knows that he won't get any profit from doing it.

[Vulcan]

If Cheese was a farmer, he'd be doing his daily prayers.

[flamefan74]

I work with farmers everyday and while some can be whiny, most aren't. I think they may come across as whiny, but I think that is more to due with the fact that city people don't understand what a farmer is up against. A farmer may just be trying to state facts, but it comes across as complaining. Calculuso is right in that there is basically no profit unless they have a near perfect crop.

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by flamefan74

near perfect crop

There in lies the problem. I can't remember a good crop year for the last 10 years at least (wheat/canola back in Saskatchewan). Many a farmer are being forced to sell their land due to consecutive bad crops. . . times have not been easy the last few years especially.

[Hakan]

There was a time when farmers were greatly valued in society because y'know they grew the food for us that we needed to eat.

As industrial processes rapidly disassociated our food with the process of production and the humans who produce we begin to see farmers as an annoyance. That's a shame, it really is.

Why do farmers always 'whine'? Because they never make any money. Giant market controlling forces on either side of them, (seed, pesticide corporations from the supply side and giant buyers consortiums like walmart, costco and safeway on the demand side) gobble up all the profits to be made. A wheat farmer sees about one nickel from a $3.00 loaf of bread. But he still has to buy the insecticides, pay the mortgage, and gas up the combines which means the farmer sees practically nothing from the product he sells.

Unfortunately, we are so completely ignorant about where our food comes from that we think it's our perogative to berate the people who produce it for us.

[flamefan74]

Giant market controlling forces on either side of them, (seed, pesticide corporations from the supply side and giant buyers consortiums like walmart, costco and safeway on the demand side) gobble up all the profits to be made.

The biggest controlling force being the Canadian Wheat Board. For example, a farmer has to sell his malting barley through the CWB. He can't sell it through anyone else. The CWB says that a farmer can only get $2.50/bushel of malting barley. That same bushel makes 33 bottles of beer. Easy to figure out who makes the money.

Unfortunately, we are so completely ignorant about where our food comes from that we think it's our perogative to berate the people who produce it for us.

This is so true. The Europeans value their farmers as a lot of people had to starve during WWII over there and they don't want to have it happen again. Unfortunately, North America has a cheap food policy and if the price went up a little bit, people sure complain.

[White Doors]

Another factor is that the EU and USA subsidize their farmers up the ying yang. Canadians get next to nothing from the government comparitively. This is what our farmers have to compete with and it isn't easy. Canada is currently trying to get the US and EU to lower their subsidies to make it an even playing field. This will also go a long ways to helping Africa develop.

[mykalberta]

The problem is that Canada's grain farmers have been forced to compete with both hands and a leg tied behind their back.

Look at it from a buisness perspective:

Costs: Land prices (1500-2500 per acre depending on where you are), fuel, fertilizer, machinery prices have all skyrocked yet

Income - wheat has stayed ar roughly 5.50/bushel. In a good year a farmer might be able to get 45 bushells an acre, average I would say about 30.

Market Forces: Are not at play because while oil companies pass the costs of operation to consumers, grain producers cant pass increased costs to consumers because the wheat board regulates the price. There fore the only way to compete is to get bigger and bigger to apply the laws of capital appropriation dilution (the reason companies merge - more assets makes it easier to borrow and easier to justify the high costs of machinery), further driving up land costs. Before you could own 500 acres and say 100 head of cattle and have a pretty comfortable life. Now if you own under 1000 you are small potatoes.

Wheatboard: initially designed so the small farmer has a chance agains the big guy, it has now turned into a way the Government of Canada can send wheat to africa and not have to pay far market prices - also the main reason the US has for subsidization cause theysay Canada floods the world market.

US industry - while the livestock industry is heavily subsidized - the grain industry isnt - they get tax breaks off fuel, but so do Alberta farmers.

EU industry - is heavily subsizdized, but almost has to be cause they couldnt compete with the operations of size in North America/USSR and also because WW1 and WW2 taught those countries that you need your own food supply.

It would be the same as if you worked in Calgary for 20 years with no raise, the only way to make more income would be to get a second job.

MYK

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

What are the idea conditions for farmers, because I always hear them complaining and never saying that "this is the best weather ever!" I am just tired of it, and want to know what will make them happy.

So are you seeing the same farmers on the news every year? Probably not. Because every year, a significant number of farmers are having average years, but there's always going to be areas that get worse conditions. The farmers I know (and I know quite a few) are pretty realistic about the weather. They know that farming is an occupation of chance, and some years are going to be a write-off. However, in any given year there's always going to be some farmers who have had really bad weather, and some who have perfect weather. Media will, of course, focus on those with the awful weather. For farmers in my parents' area (out toward Drumheller), this year is shaping up pretty good so far, weather-wise: lots of moisture in the ground, and some good warmth already.

You ask what ideal conditions would be? A dry spell for a few weeks now (to get the crops in the ground), a mix of sun and rain from late may through mid-july, and then nice warm sunny weather in july, august, september, to turn the crops and provide a good harvest season.

The thing that frustrates most farmers is the economic situation. As others pointed out, the subsidy situation is very bad: out of every dollar a farmer makes, something like .03 comes from government subsidy. Compare that to Europe, where .30 comes from subsidy. There's a world grain surplus, and with the European and american government subsidizing their farmers, this further deflates the grain prices. Flamefan74 pointed out how little a farmer makes with malt barley. Consider also that barley going malt is pretty rare (maybe once in five years you'll get malt), and there's a serious drop-off in return below malt. Breaking even is in many ways a best case scenario.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

The problem is that Canada's grain farmers have been forced to compete with both hands and a leg tied behind their back.

Look at it from a buisness perspective:

Costs: Land prices (1500-2500 per acre depending on where you are), fuel, fertilizer, machinery prices have all skyrocked yet

Income - wheat has stayed ar roughly 5.50/bushel. In a good year a farmer might be able to get 45 bushells an acre, average I would say about 30.

Market Forces: Are not at play because while oil companies pass the costs of operation to consumers, grain producers cant pass increased costs to consumers because the wheat board regulates the price. There fore the only way to compete is to get bigger and bigger to apply the laws of capital appropriation dilution (the reason companies merge - more assets makes it easier to borrow and easier to justify the high costs of machinery), further driving up land costs. Before you could own 500 acres and say 100 head of cattle and have a pretty comfortable life. Now if you own under 1000 you are small potatoes.

Wheatboard: initially designed so the small farmer has a chance agains the big guy, it has now turned into a way the Government of Canada can send wheat to africa and not have to pay far market prices - also the main reason the US has for subsidization cause theysay Canada floods the world market.

US industry - while the livestock industry is heavily subsidized - the grain industry isnt - they get tax breaks off fuel, but so do Alberta farmers.

EU industry - is heavily subsizdized, but almost has to be cause they couldnt compete with the operations of size in North America/USSR and also because WW1 and WW2 taught those countries that you need your own food supply.

It would be the same as if you worked in Calgary for 20 years with no raise, the only way to make more income would be to get a second job.

MYK

Good post.

[EVERLAST]

hey, I got a great idea. Why dont YOU go ask Darryl Sutter how he feels about the topic of being a FARMER and making ends meet?

Just a thought....