Flames 2013 Draft Discussion

[Miniac]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The Flames need to draft the best player that will actually play for them.

By all accounts, Nichushkin is the type of player that may refuse to even put on the teams' jersey if he doesn't like them.

I agree, that's why I think they Flames list might be something like this;

1) MacKinnon
2) Barkov
3) Drouin
4) Jones
5) Monahan
6) Lindholm
7) Nichushkin
8) Nurse

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The Flames need to draft the best player that will actually play for them.

By all accounts, Nichushkin is the type of player that may refuse to even put on the teams' jersey if he doesn't like them.

agree for that main reason i do not want to see them draft Nichushkin. Nothing is to stop him from leaving even in a year and heading back to the KHL for bigger $ than NHL entry level max.
I would be disappointed if the Flames bit on Nichushkin.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Miniac

I agree, that's why I think they Flames list might be something like this;

1) MacKinnon
2) Barkov
3) Drouin
4) Jones
5) Monahan
6) Lindholm
7) Nichushkin
8) Nurse

That is exactly the way i see it too.

[Miniac]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

agree for that main reason i do not want to see them draft Nichushkin. Nothing is to stop him from leaving even in a year and heading back to the KHL for bigger $ than NHL entry level max.
I would be disappointed if the Flames bit on Nichushkin.

Ken King said in the season ticket holders meeting that he wants the rebuild to be done right even if it'll take longer.

So very likely not going to take a chance on Nichushkin?

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

agree for that main reason i do not want to see them draft Nichushkin. Nothing is to stop him from leaving even in a year and heading back to the KHL for bigger $ than NHL entry level max.
I would be disappointed if the Flames bit on Nichushkin.

Yea true...despite his potential I would be worried about the long-term for sure.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Yanda

I can agree with that as its not as likely the flames will get there choice of Centermen next draft when they are picking 14th Overall as usual.

Im just not convinced that Lindholm is a franchise player.

A lot of other people are. In the Lindholm vs Monahan thread it was pretty obvious that a lot of people are high on Lindholm and that he has had a draft year that puts him in very good company:

Originally Posted by googol

4th best PPG draft eligible year in SEL history.

.84 - D. Sedin (50gp)
.74 - P. Forsberg (23gp)
.69 - H. Sedin (49gp)
.63 - E. Lindholm (48gp)

And apparently Lindholm is earning a lot of Forsberg comparisons.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sweden-...184824712.html

Most assessments are that Lindholm is the more skilled player and Monahan is more defensively responsible but really it seems like people are splitting hairs trying to put one players above the other.

To me that says that if you are willing to take Monahan over Nichushkin then you should also be okay with Lindholm over Nichushkin.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

agree for that main reason i do not want to see them draft Nichushkin. Nothing is to stop him from leaving even in a year and heading back to the KHL for bigger $ than NHL entry level max.
I would be disappointed if the Flames bit on Nichushkin.

Actually there is.. IIHF eligibility... if he wants to stay eligible to play in any of the international competitions that the IIHF runs (Olympics, World Championships, etc.) he needs to honor his NHL contract until it is finished. At his age the ELC length is 3 years.

[handgroen]

Originally Posted by Wolven

A lot of other people are. In the Lindholm vs Monahan thread it was pretty obvious that a lot of people are high on Lindholm and that he has had a draft year that puts him in very good company:



And apparently Lindholm is earning a lot of Forsberg comparisons.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sweden-...184824712.html

Most assessments are that Lindholm is the more skilled player and Monahan is more defensively responsible but really it seems like people are splitting hairs trying to put one players above the other.

To me that says that if you are willing to take Monahan over Nichushkin then you should also be okay with Lindholm over Nichushkin.

Still think you trade down with buffalo so they can get nichuskin.
edmonton will likely draft nurse or lindholm, and i think the flames are comfortable with either guy that's left on the board at 8.

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Very few players are close to Malkin. Kuznetsov is considered one of the best prospects in the entire world right now - if the Flames drafted Nich and he ended up that good, and came over, that would be juuuust fine.

I understand all that, but didnt Kuznetsov go 28th or something in his draft year witha similar KHL stat line? Im just saying, thats not a potential 1st overall guy.

Yakupov did a point per game pace in the KHL 1 year older than V nutz. Nich just put up 15 pts in 43 KHL games this past season (reg season and playoffs combined). Im not saying hes garbage, just commenting on people thinking he would 1st overall if he were Canadian.

[Ashasx]

Kuznetsov also just signed a deal in the KHL and is likely never coming over.

"Great" prospect. Useless NHLer.

[handgroen]

Originally Posted by icarus

Thanks for your Mock Draft, and also for linking to the Mock Draft database. Cool.

http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-phil...-familiar-ties
6.nichuskin
22.shinkaruk
28.petan
that's a lot'o'talent

http://nhlontheice.com/articles/nhl-...mock-draft-2-0
6.lindholm
22.fucale
29.mantha

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nh.../NHL-Draft-2.0
6.lindholm
22.erne
28.mantha
that one may be my favourite flames haul

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Kuznetsov also just signed a deal in the KHL and is likely never coming over.

"Great" prospect. Useless NHLer.

He's expected to come over after the Olympics, unless there's been a development I don't know about.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Miniac

I agree, that's why I think they Flames list might be something like this;

1) MacKinnon
2) Barkov
3) Drouin
4) Jones
5) Monahan
6) Lindholm
7) Nichushkin
8) Nurse

For arguments sake, I think the Flames list, if they were going to go BPA, but picking according to need if they are close is something as follows:

1. MacKinnon - Best player in the draft and is a centre. The Flames take him without a doubt if he's available where they are picking.
2. Jones - Top defenceman, which is another glaring hole for the Flames. May take longer to develop, but will probably be a 2 two pairing defenceman down the road.
3. Drouin - High scoring forward. Might be the most skilled guy in the top 3, but is a LW and is a tad small. Though other teams might have him #1, he's close enough to the other two above him that he would be Flames 3rd choice because of organizational needs.
4. Nichushkin - Similar to Drouin, but with more size and plays RW which the Flames desperately need. Would probably be ranked above Drouin if he wasn't Russian. Has the skill to be #1 over-all.
5. Barkov - Big, skilled 2 way centre. Might be exactly what the Flames need. Just a touch less skill than the top 4.
6. Nurse - Might develop into the best defenceman in the draft which is something the Flames need.
7. Monahan - See Barkov, but with less skill. Maybe more of an unknown since he was the #1 guy on a poor team, logging in huge minutes. Does that inflate his stats a bit? See Iginla for comparison of an average player getting points because of being on a poor team. Might top out as a 2nd line player, which the Flames have lots of.
8. Lindholm - Same as Monahan albeit, with a different type of skill set. Is a tad small and is currently playing LW, which the Flames don't need.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by RyZ

I understand all that, but didnt Kuznetsov go 28th or something in his draft year witha similar KHL stat line? Im just saying, thats not a potential 1st overall guy.

Yakupov did a point per game pace in the KHL 1 year older than V nutz. Nich just put up 15 pts in 43 KHL games this past season (reg season and playoffs combined). Im not saying hes garbage, just commenting on people thinking he would 1st overall if he were Canadian.

Honestly, I have never been able to make sense of the stats of European prospects, particularly in Russia. It seems like many great prospects get little playing time and fewer games. I'm not sure if maybe they emphasize training and practice over games when developing players, but it always seems weird to me. For example, Ovechkin only had 23 points in 53 games (not significantly different) the year he went 1st overall. Similarily, Semin had 17 points in 47 games the year he was drafted.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by _Q_

For arguments sake, I think the Flames list, if they were going to go BPA, but picking according to need if they are close is something as follows:

1. MacKinnon - Best player in the draft and is a centre. The Flames take him without a doubt if he's available where they are picking.
2. Jones - Top defenceman, which is another glaring hole for the Flames. May take longer to develop, but will probably be a 2 two pairing defenceman down the road.
3. Drouin - High scoring forward. Might be the most skilled guy in the top 3, but is a LW and is a tad small. Though other teams might have him #1, he's close enough to the other two above him that he would be Flames 3rd choice because of organizational needs.
4. Nichushkin - Similar to Drouin, but with more size and plays RW which the Flames desperately need. Would probably be ranked above Drouin if he wasn't Russian. Has the skill to be #1 over-all.
5. Barkov - Big, skilled 2 way centre. Might be exactly what the Flames need. Just a touch less skill than the top 4.
6. Nurse - Might develop into the best defenceman in the draft which is something the Flames need.
7. Monahan - See Barkov, but with less skill. Maybe more of an unknown since he was the #1 guy on a poor team, logging in huge minutes. Does that inflate his stats a bit? See Iginla for comparison of an average player getting points because of being on a poor team. Might top out as a 2nd line player, which the Flames have lots of.
8. Lindholm - Same as Monahan albeit, with a different type of skill set. Is a tad small and is currently playing LW, which the Flames don't need.

I think Barkov is 4, Nichushkin 5, Monohan 6, Nurse 7, Lindholm 8. But Personally I would swap Lindholm & Nurse, and Monohan & Nichushkin

[sureLoss]

John Vogl ‏@BuffNewsVogl 17s Sabres GM Darcy Regier says it will be "extremely difficult if not impossible" to move up in NHL draft.

John Vogl ‏@BuffNewsVogl 52s Sabres feel cost of moving to top of draft would set franchise back. They say they'll get a top-6 forward or top-4 defenseman at No. 8.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Kuznetsov also just signed a deal in the KHL and is likely never coming over.

"Great" prospect. Useless NHLer.

Link? Everything I googled says hes under contract in the KHL till the end of the upcoming season.

Seems like he told the Capitals he is coming over for 2014-2015

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by _Q_

For arguments sake, I think the Flames list, if they were going to go BPA, but picking according to need if they are close is something as follows:
...

My "Flames list" would be between this one and Miniac

1) MacKinnon
2) Jones
3) Barkov
4) Drouin
5) Monahan
6) Lindholm
7) Nurse
8) Nichushkin

I would consider flipping Barkov and Jones. It would be a really tough choice if both of those players were on the board and MacKinnon was gone.

[djsFlames]

"When Nichushkin is at his best, he's by far better than Barkov, but he's not always at his best," NHL Director of European Scouting Goran Stubb told NHL.com. Nichushkin said he is confident he'll be able to play consistently with better players surrounding him in the NHL.
"As a young player, I realize I have to work hard and prove everything," Nichushkin told NHL.com through an interpreter. "It doesn't matter to me which pick I will be. The most important thing is that the team that drafts [me] knows I will be a real valuable player."
Nichushkin, No. 2 on Central Scouting's final ranking of European skaters, has made public his desire to play in North America in 2013-14. He terminated his contract with Moscow Dynamo of the Kontinental Hockey League in order to play in the NHL season, but there is a stipulation.
"If he's not playing in the NHL, he's going to have to play for Dynamo," Nichushkin's agent, Mark Gandler, said. "The termination [of his contract] occurred without compensation to the team. [Returning to Dynamo if he isn't playing in the NHL] is what we would owe the team for that provision."
However, Gandler believes that won't be an issue. And he's not the only one. When asked how confident he was that he would be in the NHL in 2013-14, Nichushkin said, "100 percent sure."
"I feel Alexander Semin might be one of the best passers in the League," Gandler said of one of his other clients. "Nichushkin has that ability to see like Semin and make a crisp pass without looking and know where everyone is. That makes him extremely dangerous, especially when he gets to play with good players in the NHL."
Gandler told NHL.com that Nichushkin and his other two Russian clients participating in the NHL Scouting Combine this week, left wing Pavel Buchnevich and center Bogdan Yakimov, will train together over the summer at Power Train Sports Institute in Manheim, Pa., under the guidance of Steve Saunders. The institute specializes in preparing college football players for the NFL Combine.
"Valeri's goal is not to just make the team, but to be one of the top players in the NHL in his first year, and that's why he's staying in North America the entire summer and going through a tremendous fitness routine," Gandler said.

More stuff on Nichuskin, more recent. He's really setting his sights high for next year. But at least doing well to prepare for it (staying in NA and being put through training routines). Also, some were concerned from watching 3 minutes of highlight footage that he couldn't do anything but skate end to end and deeke out the goalie. So yeah, apparently he can pass, very well. Then again I think that's coming from his agent. But the 'far better than barkov' line intrigues me.

[Henry Fool]

Reports of interviewing badly, possible on-ice inconsistency - those sound like classic red flags to me whether the player is Russian or any other nationality. I still don't see him going early in a deep draft.

I think on the flipside of the "Russian factor" there is some mystique about "Russian skill" at work too.