Calgary offers picks 6, 22, 28 for the first overall: no dice

[PeteLFan]

Originally Posted by Poe969

And I think that's why that trade won't be accepted. I think the Flames have a chance with Florida if they give the #6 &22 picks + maybe Tangs or something or even all 3 + a player then they might get somewhere.

And for the record, I would offer them anything we have for MacKinnon; picks, prospects and especially players.

You don't win in this league with 1 star player we know that very well.

I wouldn't even consider trading 2 1st round picks plus prospects to get Nathan. He's a great player, but it will set the rebuild back n

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Poe969

And I think that's why that trade won't be accepted. I think the Flames have a chance with Florida if they give the #6 &22 picks + maybe Tangs or something or even all 3 + a player then they might get somewhere.

And for the record, I would offer them anything we have for MacKinnon; picks, prospects and especially players.

I think there is less chance that Florida would do the deal than the Av's. Florida really needs to put fans in the seats right now. Huberdeau just won the rookie award and needs a top line center. McKinnon and Huberdeau is a great marketing campaign to put fans back into the seats. Don't see how they can market a #6 draft choice that probably is 2-3 years away.

[Poe969]

Thing is, McKinnon isn't just a great player. He's a great #1 Center and you do win in this league with a #1 center. In fact, I'll say that you CAN'T win without a #1 center and the only way you get a real #1 center in today's NHL is to draft one. Sure, Monahan might turn into our best center but he might turn into a Langkow (solid #2 center but not the kind of guy who is on a top line on a good team).

The hardest spot to fill on an NHL team is the most important, first line center. MacKinnon will fill that spot. You get that one piece and you build from there. If you want to build a team that's going to be good for a long time, you give up anything to get that #1 center and go from there.

Sure, the rebuild might take a little longer because we don't have 3 first rounders but we'll have one great one. A top line center makes his line mates better. A top line winger gets better with a good center but without one will probably be the only good player on the line. Crosby has made Dupis a top line player, Dupis wouldn't be top line on a LOT of teams.

It boils down to the #1 center position on a team being the most important. MacKinnon will be a #1 center (or the odds of this happening are a lot better than most any other player). If you can build a team around a potentially great player or build around what you hope to be a good player and 2 "maybe's", you'd be foolish not to take the great player.

[kyuss275]

[QUOTE=PeteLFan;4285370]You don't win in this league with 1 star player we know that very well.

I wouldn't even consider trading 2 1st round picks plus prospects to get Nathan. He's a great player, but it will set the rebuild back n[/QUOTE]

How does it set the rebuild back? Do you think McKinnon would have come into Calgary this year and taken them out of the bottom 5?

[kyuss275]

This is a tweet by Millions:

Roger Millions ‏@RogMillions 1h
Also I'm hearing the Avs wanted even more than 3 First Rounders. Also a young current roster player. Forget it.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

This is a tweet by Millions:

Roger Millions ‏@RogMillions 1h
Also I'm hearing the Avs wanted even more than 3 First Rounders. Also a young current roster player. Forget it.

So basically all three of our 1st, Sven and Gio for the 1st overall pick? Boy are the Avs bitter.

[mrdonkey]

There is still lots of time for the Flames to suck and draft franchise players. I'm as upset as anyone that the rich are getting richer (TB, Car, Col) while the Flames continue to toil in 'also ran' territory but we can't change that now.

1st overall is a reasonable expectation next year and the year after that, but those star players won't take the team anywhere without a good supporting cast. Look at Edmonton.

Just use those three 1sts wisely on solid support elements, then insert the elite game-breakers later to maximize the value of their ELCs. That's how the successful rebuilds went, and why the Something Specials are still waiting for it all to somehow come together.

[zukes]

Mackinnon is not Crosby. He is not the consensus #1. In fact I would guess some have Drouin ahead of him. Three 1st rounders us too much to give up for what is likely to be a good to great player, but one that is not likely to be a true franchise changer.

Even if he is a guy like Stamkos is or Tavares, what good has that done those teams? I like the Flames chances with three picks much better.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

So basically all three of our 1st, Sven and Gio for the 1st overall pick? Boy are the Avs bitter.

I don't know about Gio, but it sounds like they wanted Sven also with the 3 firsts. Thats a no go for me.

I also don't think it would have mattered about the "offer sheet", when it comes to turning down the flames 3 1sts. The flames have no beef with Florida, and they would probably turn us down also.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

This is a tweet by Millions:

Roger Millions ‏@RogMillions 1h
Also I'm hearing the Avs wanted even more than 3 First Rounders. Also a young current roster player. Forget it.

Yeah sounds like they at least wanted a Sven or a Brodie added. The Flames can't afford to punch that many holes in our youth. Likely 2 nice young players from the first this year and one of our two best youth.

No way.

[$ven27]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I don't know about Gio, but it sounds like they wanted Sven also with the 3 firsts. Thats a no go for me.

I also don't think it would have mattered about the "offer sheet", when it comes to turning down the flames 3 1sts. The flames have no beef with Florida, and they would probably turn us down also.

Or Brodie. Honestly it might seem like overpayment for us, but that's the cost of 1st overall.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

So basically all three of our 1st, Sven and Gio for the 1st overall pick? Boy are the Avs bitter.

Young, current NHL player.

One player, not two in addition to the three 1st rounders.

I wouldn't do it regardless, but the Avs have every right to ask for the moon. Can't blame them though.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by $ven27

Or Brodie. Honestly it might seem like overpayment for us, but that's the cost of 1st overall.

Yup. Before "Hot stove" even made the report of the flames 3 1sts, everything i have read from the media is that moving up in this draft into the top 4 is going to cost way more than it ever has.

It really sounds like Nashville wants Barkov and it will take at least the 6th and 28th to get done, maybe #22 instead of #28. That is crazy considering in the past it should cost no more than a 2nd round pick. Even for the flames to get to #5 will probably cost a 2nd round pick, which they do not have. At most, before this draft, it would have cost a 3rd.

[Roof-Daddy]

If the prices to move up are that high, just keep the three 1sts and draft BPA.

[Poe969]

I would LOVE to have MacKinnon, but if we don't get him, we're still going to be in a good place with 3 first rounders and probably 2 years of top 5 picks in our future.

Even though this team isn't going to be good for a while, I'm excited to be a Flames fan!

[FlameZilla]

Three 1sts (say Monahan, Pulock & Zykov) + Baertschi/Brodie >>>>> Mackinnon

That would set us back years. Let's stick with what we've got!

[SebC]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

It really sounds like Nashville wants Barkov and it will take at least the 6th and 28th to get done, maybe #22 instead of #28. That is crazy considering in the past it should cost no more than a 2nd round pick.

I'd seriously consider making that offer, as I'm much more sold on Barkov than Monahan. It doesn't matter what the historical price to move up has been. What matters is how big the gap between 4 and 6 is this year, and how that compares to the value for 22 or 28.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Yup. Before "Hot stove" even made the report of the flames 3 1sts, everything i have read from the media is that moving up in this draft into the top 4 is going to cost way more than it ever has.

It really sounds like Nashville wants Barkov and it will take at least the 6th and 28th to get done, maybe #22 instead of #28. That is crazy considering in the past it should cost no more than a 2nd round pick. Even for the flames to get to #5 will probably cost a 2nd round pick, which they do not have. At most, before this draft, it would have cost a 3rd.

Movements into the top 5 are virtually unheard of recently and that's likely because they're so expensive. Since 2004, the only time a team has moved into the top 5 was in 2008 where Toronto went from #7 to #5 and that cost them #37 and #68 to do that.

I just don't think teams see trading down from a top 5 pick as a viable option unless they get their socks knocked off with an offer.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by SebC

I'd seriously consider making that offer, as I'm much more sold on Barkov than Monahan. It doesn't matter what the historical price to move up has been. What matters is how big the gap between 4 and 6 is this year, and how that compares to the value for 22 or 28.

Not sure i would do it especially for #22. The gap will be Barkov vs Lindholm. I don't think the flames have much chance at Monahan. The only way i see them getting Monahan is if Carolina wants Lindholm. If they want Nurse or Russian they can trade down to #7 to get them. Edmonton has wanted Monahan before the season ended. They have 2 2nd round picks and my guess is they will use one of them to move up to #5.

[megatron]

Originally Posted by blankall

Solid attempt by Feaster IMO. The only reason having lots of picks is beneficial is that it increases your odds of drafting good players. This year, McKinnon and Jones are the closest things to sure things.

The idea that the Flames need to fill every position via the draft is a bit ridiculous. You're much better off finding that franchise player and going from there. It's a lot easier to acquire a second line winger via free agency, than it is to acquire a #1 centre.

Solid attempt by Feaster. Since Colorado is likely to take Jones, as others have said, I'm sure Feaster will attempt a similar move with Florida. And despite the fact some people are calling this a massive overpayment, another franchise will probably reject the offer for the 2nd overall.

I agree with this. You usually can only draft franchise centres, but 2nd line forwards can be acquired later which is why the push for McKinnon was a good idea.

I haven't really been a Feaster supporter, but I thought this was a good try. If moving in to the top 5 costs too much, just keep all 3 first round picks collect the high-end talent next year and year after.