Calgary offers picks 6, 22, 28 for the first overall: no dice

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

Yikes, that's right... Isles offer was bigger, obviously.

I thought at the time the CBJs were nuts not to take the deal...and I still believe that...big error...I guess we'll see over time.

Tough to imagine Murray or galchenyuk are either worth more than griffin plus rest of those picks

[Roof-Daddy]

lol

If the Avs don't want their RFA's to get offer sheeted, maybe they should get them signed a little sooner than nearly half way through the season.

Cheap dooshbags.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Even in 2003, which is considered to be the strongest draft in a generation, only about 6 of the players picked between 20 and 30 are what I personally would consider impact NHLers.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2003e.html

6/10? I like those odds.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

lol

If the Avs don't want their RFA's to get offer sheeted, maybe they should get them signed a little sooner than nearly half way through the season.

Cheap dooshbags.

I really hope that Jones busts bigger than Christina Hendricks quadruple-d's. Justice for them tanking the season away.

[Stay Golden]

At least the Flames offered all 3 picks up. Avs want more than that. Hard Pass!

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by the2bears

6/10? I like those odds.

That's the strongest draft in a generation though. The chances are, this draft won't live up to that. There were a few other "strong" drafts in the past 20 years that had lower percentages.

There is probably a smaller than 50% chance that both picks pan out.

[Stampede2TheCup]

I don't understand why people are saying this trade attempt is impatient or trying to rush things. It's fair enough to say that the three first round picks are worth more to the Flames than first overall, but there is literally nothing to indicate Feaster's motivation is short-term oriented more than long-term. Getting MacKinnon would impact further down the road a heck of a lot more than the first couple years.

When Flames management has talked about wanting their high picks to come in and be competetive for a spot in camp they haven't said anything about them being first-liner's quickly or even making the team and contributing in the first season. They simply are shying away from long-term projects like Jankowski who need at least three years of physical development to even have a sniff at the NHL. It doesn't mean they're hoping for a significant contribution from the picks in the first couple years. More than likely it has to do with the number of well-developed prospects available in this year's first round and it may also have to do with with wanting the picks to develop at the same time as the young guys we already have instead of being too far behind.

[nik-]

I find it funny that last year, when they thought this team could compete, they draft a 4-5 year project, but this year they want someone to try to jump in right away.

Obviously the picks were separated by 8 slots, but it just seems completely backwards.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by nik-

I find it funny that last year, when they thought this team could compete, they draft a 4-5 year project, but this year they want someone to try to jump in right away.

Obviously the picks were separated by 8 slots, but it just seems completely backwards.

The Flames should change their motto to "well, that was a strange decision."

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Huh? In a strong draft the #22 and #28 are likely to yield impact NHLers IMO, not unlikely.

In how many drafts have the 22nd and 28th picks both yielded impact players?

[blankall]

Solid attempt by Feaster IMO. The only reason having lots of picks is beneficial is that it increases your odds of drafting good players. This year, McKinnon and Jones are the closest things to sure things.

The idea that the Flames need to fill every position via the draft is a bit ridiculous. You're much better off finding that franchise player and going from there. It's a lot easier to acquire a second line winger via free agency, than it is to acquire a #1 centre.

Solid attempt by Feaster. Since Colorado is likely to take Jones, as others have said, I'm sure Feaster will attempt a similar move with Florida. And despite the fact some people are calling this a massive overpayment, another franchise will probably reject the offer for the 2nd overall.

[atb]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

In how many drafts have the 22nd and 28th picks both yielded impact players?

Here's the 22nd and 28th picks from 2001 to 2011:

Year Pick Player
2011 22 Tyler Biggs
2011 28 Zack Phillips
2010 22 Jarred Tinordi
2010 28 Charlie Coyle
2009 22 Jordan Schroeder
2009 28 Dylan Olsen
2008 22 Jordan Eberle
2008 28 Viktor Tikhonov
2007 22 Max Pacioretty
2007 28 Nick Petrecki
2006 22 Claude Giroux
2006 28 Nick Foligno
2005 22 Matt Lashoff
2005 28 Matt Niskanen
2004 22 Lukas Kaspar
2004 28 Mark Fistric
2003 22 Marc-Antoine Pouliot
2003 28 Corey Perry
2002 22 Sean Bergenheim
2002 28 Jonas Johansson
2001 22 Jiri Novotny
2001 28 Adrian Foster

Looks like 2006 was the only year since 2001 the 22nd and 28th resulted in two impact players.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

In how many drafts have the 22nd and 28th picks both yielded impact players?

It's really silly to just pick those two selection spots. I know that's where we're picking but you should look at all players in that range. I think 20th-30th picks are a good place to look. We've also got to throw away the word impact, it can mean a different thing to different posters.

Good quality players are always available in the latter third of the draft, the Flames have to do their job and get those players. Draft them and develop them.

[Jake]

No problem with that offer... this is not the "three good players for one great payer" deal that some here are claiming it to be. Chances are at least one of our first rounders this year turn into Erixon, Nemisz, Irving, Pelech, Chucko, Nystrom, Kobasew, Fata, Saprykin etc.... I'm actually leaning towards only one out of three turning into an impact player in the future based on the Flames history. Not surprised the Aves declined it.

I don't think Feaster deserves any credit for "trying" though.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Really of all the teams in the top 7 in the draft, the Flames are the one who should be the most patient. Sure it's 4 non playoff years, but the other teams already have several key players in place, or in the case of Florida have been so bad for so long, they can't force another 3 year rebuild on their fan base.

So that alone will make it tough to move up because other teams want a player to step in now and make their team better or they will be looking at a lot of empty seats in the final third of their season. The Flames are the team in this group who are entering a rebuild, and don't have the 2-3 star type players on their roster.

I don't blame them for trying, but they are in a phase where collecting assets for a couple years, than getting a couple high end talents in the next draft may not be such a bad thing. The key is to have 5-6 good players under 25 in place as the 3-6 defenceman, or 4-9 forward spots when the top end talents come into the lineup.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. Certainly staying back and "building' depth and collecting assets is great too... but getting a star player and building around that is also the right way. Don't be soured on it just because the Flames failed to do it before.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

In how many drafts have the 22nd and 28th picks both yielded impact players?

Taking the 10 spot around the Flames 2 pick 20-29

2009 - 1 solid NHL - Johanssen (8 guys still with a chance) and 1 bust
2008 - 4 solid NHL Del Zotto, Eberle, Ennis and Carlson (maybe Tendeby) and 5 mistakes including Nemisz
2007 4 solid NHL - Max Pacioretty, Blum, Backlund, brendan Smith (maybe O'Brien) and 5 busts
2006 4 solid NHL Giroux, Varmalov,Berglund, Foligno and 5 busts including Irving
2005 6 solid NHL Rask, Bergfors, Oshie, Cogliano, Niskanen, Downie and 4 busts including Pelech
2004 7 solid NHL - Zajac, Wolski, Mezzaross, Schnieder,Jeff schultz Fistric, Mike green - 3 busts including Chucko and Schremp
2003 - 7 solid NHL (4 all stars) Burns, Stuart, Kessler, Richards, Boyle,Perry and eaves and the guys that were bust were not that bad Tambellini, Pouliet, anthony Stewart all had around 200 NHL games.

so over the years that there has been enough time to judge the results it seems that there is a 50-50 chance that 20-29th pick will be a solid NHLer

2013 from all appearances is a better year so that would raise it to 6 or 7 out of 10.

Chances that both the Flames picks are duds taking 60% chance of success is 16%.... Ie the chances that the Flames get at least one player is 84%.

Chances that both are solid NHLers 36%

[ThaJoker]

I don't know about anyone else but that move kind of makes me nervous for what Feaster might try to do on draft day with our 3 picks. We need prospects and the 3 1st rounders are PERFECT. I hope Feaster doesn't try anything stupid

[PlayfulGenius]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Even in 2003, which is considered to be the strongest draft in a generation, only about 6 of the players picked between 20 and 30 are what I personally would consider impact NHLers.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2003e.html

Uh...that's 6/10... Or 6/11, wherever you started... Are you arguing unlikely > 50% ???

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

Uh...that's 6/10... Or 6/11, wherever you started... Are you arguing unlikely > 50% ???

I'm saying the chance is less than 6/10 based on drafts in general. Basing expectations on the high watermark from the best draft in 25 years is a little unrealistic.

So yeah, I am saying that it is less than 50% that both picks turn out, and probably around 50% that one of them turns out.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I'm saying the chance is less than 6/10 based on drafts in general. Basing expectations on the high watermark from the best draft in 25 years is a little unrealistic.

So yeah, I am saying that it is less than 50% that both picks turn out, and probably around 50% that one of them turns out.

And I think that's why that trade won't be accepted. I think the Flames have a chance with Florida if they give the #6 &22 picks + maybe Tangs or something or even all 3 + a player then they might get somewhere.

And for the record, I would offer them anything we have for MacKinnon; picks, prospects and especially players.