Calgary offers picks 6, 22, 28 for the first overall: no dice

[Badger Bob]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

No they're not. #22 is better than #38.
Unless you've done comparisons that I haven't seen.

Presumably, you've seen this:
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005090.html

The jury's still out on Granlund. Granted lots of 2nd rounders have been traded away, but you have to go back to Kurtis Foster and Blair Betts to find Flames-drafted 2nd rounders, who went on to have significant NHL careers. Before that, you get names like Jamie Allison, Chris O'Sullivan, Stephan Matteau (and they didn't even keep him)...ahh, 1985 - Joe Nieuwendyk. Before that, no others. You will also notice quite a few 1st round busts over the entire history of the franchise in Calgary.

Point is we all hope this is extremely successful, but don't pin your hopes. Even some of the players, about to be drafted 1st round, won't work out for whatever reasons.

FWIW, THN did a nice job on a mock draft from Flames perspective.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by moon

Never sniffed glue in my life but I guess it is easier to make personal attacks than read the thread.

I already stated I meant add Baertschi to a deal not to the 3 picks.

Sorry missed that

Too lazy to search, what was the deal? I personally wouldn't do Sven and 6th for 1st and I would grit my teeth with Sven and 22nd but probably do it.

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by T@T

Sorry missed that

Too lazy to search, what was the deal? I personally wouldn't do Sven and 6th for 1st and I would grit my teeth with Sven and 22nd but probably do it.

Sven and 22nd I'd do without thinking twice... would think a bit harder about Sven and 6th.

[Ashasx]

No way I do Sven + 6th.

[Erick Estrada]

The old quantity vs quality argument. I'm torn. On one hand MacKinnon is the guy I wanted all along and I feel he is the best player to come along in since Stamkos. On the other hand he's just one player and this team needs lots of players. MacKinnin that like all players runs the risk of major injuries or concussion issues. If he has any major injury issues it pretty well disrupts the entire team and derails the rebuild.

Say the Flames get Monahan who turns into a 75 point center, Zykov that turns into a 35-40 goal winger, and Morrissey who turns into a 1st or 2nd pairing defenseman. Is that worth more than a guy that may be a 40 goal/95 point center with a shoddy supporting cast? Tough call but if I felt that the three players had that potential I may keep the picks and roll the dice.

[Newfieflamefan]

2003: Fleury vs. Michalek, Pouliot, Perry
2004: Ovechkin vs. Montoya, Kaspars, Fistric
2005: Crosby vs. Brule, Lashoff, Niskanen
2006: Johnson vs. Brassard, Giroux, Foligno
2007: Kane vs. Gagne, Pacioretty, Petrecki
2008: Stamkos vs. Filatov, Eberle, Tikhonov
2009: Tavares vs. Ekman-Larsson, Schroeder, Olsen
2010: Hall vs. Connolly, Tinordi, Coyle
2011: Nugent-Hopkins vs. Zibanejad, Biggs, Phillips
2012: Yakopov vs. Lindholm, Maata, Skjei

How many of the past ten years would you not take #1? Only clear cut examples where the 3 picks turn out better would be 2003 & 2006...both years have players that didn't live up to expectations taken at # 1 and absolute home runs with late picks (Perry @ 28 in 2003 & Giroux @ 22 in 2006).

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

The thing that makes zero sense to me is that a team needs to have about 7-8 really good players on it to be a contender

Kings - Kopitar, Brown, Carter, Richards, Quick, Doughty, Voynov
Hawks - Kane, Toews, Hossa, Bolland, Keith, Seabrook, Campbell, Hjalmarsson
Bruins - Horton, Bergeron, Marchand, Chara, Lucic, Rask, Krejic,
Penguins - Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Iginla, Morrow, Dupuis, Letang, Kunitz (each team has more, this is off the top of my head)

The Flames currently have Baertschi and Brodie. Jankowski and Gaudreau are the two other prospects that have the best chance to be added to that list, but that's really it. We have a chance to add 1 guy for sure onto the list with Baertschi and Brodie, and another two into the solid maybe category.

Frankly we are going to suck next year and the year after. Get Ho Sang, Ekblad or Reinhart next year, and Saarela or whomever in 2015 to get the star power. The thing with exceptional players is that they are going to be there each year to a varying degree.

Rushing to get a star player like MacKinnon might be will just mean that the following year's picks will not be as good and the team will get to the playoffs sooner but the team will not ever be a contender and will have to tear down again after 10 more years of frustration

We do need to load up on great supporting cast to become a Stanley Cup contender, but in my mind, if you have a chance to get a franchise player for three picks, you do it every day of the week. Yes, teams need a full team of quality players, but teams also need franchise players, the Flames have nothing even close to that.

[really?]

[QUOTE=T@T;4284840]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

No! I see him as a 80+ player with leadership that can control the game and get clutch points. The kid is good but not Crosby good.

That's my opinion as well. There's a reasonable possibility that a player like Lindholm could ultimately be as good or better than Mackinnon. From a hypothetical standpoint I don't think history would look at a Lindholm, Morrissey, and Klimchuk for Mackinnon deal as being a good thing for the team that dealt those three players.

My fear is that ultimately Colorado makes this deal in a second, right now they're just trying to squeeze more from what they perceive to be a weak hand. A deal like this seems to be more marketing driven than hockey driven from a Flames point of view.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by flameswin

We do need to load up on great supporting cast to become a Stanley Cup contender, but in my mind, if you have a chance to get a franchise player for three picks, you do it every day of the week. Yes, teams need a full team of quality players, but teams also need franchise players, the Flames have nothing even close to that.

But not 4 picks?

[moon]

Originally Posted by T@T

Sorry missed that

Too lazy to search, what was the deal? I personally wouldn't do Sven and 6th for 1st and I would grit my teeth with Sven and 22nd but probably do it.

Didn't mention a deal but would gladly do Sven plus one or both of the other picks and probably Sven plus 6.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

No way I do Sven + 6th.

Sven plus the 6th for Mackinnon? Hell yeah. Baertchi is good, and will likely turn into a decent NHL'er, but I think Flames fans are little higher on Sven than most GM's and experts in the media would be because he's the first legitmate propsect we've seen in a while. If they accept Baertchi and the 6th for the first, you gotta do that, imo.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Sven and 22nd I'd do without thinking twice... would think a bit harder about Sven and 6th.

Sven is going to be a special player, there is no player on the roster I wouldn't package with picks for Mackinnon except him.

Mackinnon and Sven would be gold for years!

[WCW Nitro]

I might be the only one thinks this, but I think the manner in which you try to get good players is something to be proud of. I love that the Flames are trying to get a center through a trade instead of the usual suck and get a top 3 pick approach. Feaster went after Richards, ROR, and now the #1 overall to draft Mackinnon. I like the boldness. Call me crazy, but the Chicago-Pittsburgh strategy of getting elite players by sucking and then adding pieces, not for me. Yes, they won Cups, but I don't know, I kind of like that the Flames didn't go down that road. The way you build a winner is just as important for me as winning itself.

[Badger Bob]

Originally Posted by Newfieflamefan

2003: Fleury vs. Michalek, Pouliot, Perry
2004: Ovechkin vs. Montoya, Kaspars, Fistric
2005: Crosby vs. Brule, Lashoff, Niskanen
2006: Johnson vs. Brassard, Giroux, Foligno
2007: Kane vs. Gagne, Pacioretty, Petrecki
2008: Stamkos vs. Filatov, Eberle, Tikhonov
2009: Tavares vs. Ekman-Larsson, Schroeder, Olsen
2010: Hall vs. Connolly, Tinordi, Coyle
2011: Nugent-Hopkins vs. Zibanejad, Biggs, Phillips
2012: Yakopov vs. Lindholm, Maata, Skjei

How many of the past ten years would you not take #1? Only clear cut examples where the 3 picks turn out better would be 2003 & 2006...both years have players that didn't live up to expectations taken at # 1 and absolute home runs with late picks (Perry @ 28 in 2003 & Giroux @ 22 in 2006).

Good observations! These are examples of 1st overalls being franchise players, except Giroux developed better than expected. While that 6th pick should probably still land somebody really good and the late 1st rounders should add depth, the top picks are the ones to build a club around.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Slava

So, its highway robbery and yet the Avs said no? Obviously its a good offer by Feaster if the other side didn't jump all over it.

Just wait, though, it'll be another thing that never happened that is proof of Feaster's incompetence.

[Erick Estrada]

Colorado will likely take Jones so the real question is if the Panthers are willing to make that trade once the Avalanche make their pick official.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

But not 4 picks?

I already explained that that's different because you threw in next year's first,, not just "4 picks", which for the Flames, will likely be very high. Any more picks from this season and I'd say yeah to four picks, but you make your proposed trade and there's the potential for us sitting here next season in 30th place with no pick, going "Wow, that was one of the stupider trades in Flames history".

[timbit]

Originally Posted by flameswin

We do need to load up on great supporting cast to become a Stanley Cup contender, but in my mind, if you have a chance to get a franchise player for three picks, you do it every day of the week. Yes, teams need a full team of quality players, but teams also need franchise players, the Flames have nothing even close to that.

Agreed to an extent but when you are as barren of prospects, comparative to most of the rest of the league, you need to get as many quality picks as possible. And do it for 2 or 3 consecutive years.

Your plan gets the best player but extends the rebuild another 2 or 3 years, in my opinion.

[jeffman]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Sven plus the 6th for Mackinnon? Hell yeah. Baertchi is good, and will likely turn into a decent NHL'er, but I think Flames fans are little higher on Sven than most GM's and experts in the media would be because he's the first legitmate propsect we've seen in a while. If they accept Baertchi and the 6th for the first, you gotta do that, imo.

Didn't they do a re-poll of GMs last year for 2011's draft, where Baerschi ended 6th overall?

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by flameswin

We do need to load up on great supporting cast to become a Stanley Cup contender, but in my mind, if you have a chance to get a franchise player for three picks, you do it every day of the week. Yes, teams need a full team of quality players, but teams also need franchise players, the Flames have nothing even close to that.

I'm not arguing that, we can get those guys in 2014 and 2015 as we're not going to be good by then magically. If we are not in the top 3 picks each year I'll be beyond shocked and wondering what the heck is wrong with those other teams. Reinhart, Ekblad and Ho Sang are all in the same conversation as Drouin/MacKinnon in terms of talent, the difference is that those draft do not have nearly the same about of depth as this one.

The player we would pick at 22 will be similar to a guy picked 12-14 in past years and the one at 28 would be more in the 18-22 range.

We can finally have a good prospect pool after decades of being one of the worst teams in that regard and instead we're looking at throwing that away when we are nowhere near ready to return to being decent.