Alberta Health Minister fires board of AHS

[CaptainCrunch]

Prepare for a wack of wrongful dismissal lawsuits.

If those bonus structures were in employment contracts and they were fired for trying to pay those bonuses, then there's probably legal recourse.

No executive ever just goes away.

The costs of the lawsuits will probably make the bonuses look like pennies.

The Alberta Health Minister should have canned himself at the same time, the guy is bloody incompetent.

[Regular_John]

Well the optics of "They wouldn't drop their bonuses so we fired em!" sure looks great, I suspect the legal wrangling involved in axing 99 senior staff members will devour any actual savings for the tax payers. Reading, me bad at it.

Maybe we'll be better for it in the long run, but I gotta wonder what the cost for this mess will be in the short term and how much of a distraction it'll be from the day to day operations of AHS. "Sorry, no budget approvals right now, too busy dealing with the fallout of firing everyone"

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by jaydorn

Well the optics of "They wouldn't drop their bonuses so we fired em!" sure looks great, I suspect the legal wrangling involved in axing 99 senior staff members will devour any actual savings for the tax payers.

Maybe we'll be better for it in the long run, but I gotta wonder what the cost for this mess will be in the short term and how much of a distraction it'll be from the day to day operations of AHS. "Sorry, no budget approvals right now, too busy dealing with the fallout of firing everyone"

?? He didn't axe 99 senior members. He fired a 10 member board.

Link

In firing the 10-member panel Wednesday, Health Minister Fred Horne said the final straw came when he learned last week that the board turned down an offer by some of the 99 executives to forego those bonuses.

On Tuesday, he’d asked the board to cancel the entire so-called pay-at-risk payouts for 2012-13, a request rejected by the board.

“We also understand the board refused to allow those executives to exercise those options, and for that I’m very disappointed,” said Horne.

[Erick Estrada]

How exactly does anyone working in health services warrant bonuses for doing their job?

[NuclearPizzaMan]

Even if the board is perfectly right in that they MUST pay these bonuses, shouldn't they be terminated for creating the contracts that forced the bonuses in the first place, when the AHS is in the state it is in?

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

How exactly does anyone working in health services warrant bonuses for doing their job?

Same way anbody else gets a bonus for doing their job in any industry? By going above the expectations, I assume.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Yasa

Same way anbody else gets a bonus for doing their job in any industry? By going above the expectations, I assume.

Most industries use profits as measurement. Alberta Health Services isn't profit based and should have fixed operating costs.

[Minnie]

And what expectations have they gone above?

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Prepare for a wack of wrongful dismissal lawsuits.

If those bonus structures were in employment contracts and they were fired for trying to pay those bonuses, then there's probably legal recourse.

No executive ever just goes away.

The costs of the lawsuits will probably make the bonuses look like pennies.

The Alberta Health Minister should have canned himself at the same time, the guy is bloody incompetent.

I don't think there will be any wrongful dismissal lawsuits as none of the directors of AHS are employees.

Directors serve at the pleasure of the shareholders. They do not have employment agreements or severance/notice obligations.

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Most industries use profits as measurement. Alberta Health Services isn't profit based and should have fixed operating costs.

My understanding of it is they have annual budgets which change year to year based on demand of the industry. As the province expands, builds hospitals and such, the budget requests go up. When resources aren't utilized, they get downsized. So a fixed annual budget, but variable year-to-year. And whether or not that budget is being used properly is up to management of each specific zone.

I think I understand what you're saying, though. I'm speaking from more of a "front lines" perspective I guess. If employees go out and do PR events and promotion on their own time, help out in the community, etc. then I'd say that would be considered going beyond expectations and while a bonus shouldn't really be the motive for that, I think it's a good reward to that worker. I'm not talking about employees getting huge cash bonuses for just doing their base-job.

As for the board that just got fired, I would say they don't deserve or should expect any bonuses based on what I'm understanding here. I'm just talking about the lower level people within AHS.

[smoothpops]

This is probably going to make me sound like an idiot for not knowing this, but what is AHS' mandate? As a Crown corp. shouldn't their bonuses be based on some sort of benchmarks?

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Yasa

Same way anbody else gets a bonus for doing their job in any industry? By going above the expectations, I assume.

If that was the case they would be taking a one time paycut.

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by Minnie

?? He didn't axe 99 senior members. He fired a 10 member board.

Link

Yay reading, not my strong suit.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Prepare for a wack of wrongful dismissal lawsuits.

Board members are generally "appointed at her Majesty's pleasure", which means that, generally speaking, their appointment may be ended at any time without cause (and therefore without damages.) Of course, that does not mean that there won't be lawsuits filed, but I doubt that they will be successful.

[para transit fellow]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

This is a good read regarding how management is structured versus how it should potentially operate.

http://www.converge-group.net/wp-con...in-Alberta.pdf

Folks gotta read this!!!!!!!!!!!

[vanisleflamesfan]

What?! This is outrageous! Giving tax-payer funded bonuses to executives is the Alberta way! It is their God-given right as Alberta executives to get these bonuses!

[Slava]

I guess I won't make many friends with this sentiment, but they should be given their bonuses. Frankly after listening to Stephen Duckett last night on the radio (and on top of my prior thoughts about this anyway) I think that they earned them and the government is meddling where they ought not to be.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Slava

I guess I won't make many friends with this sentiment, but they should be given their bonuses. Frankly after listening to Stephen Duckett last night on the radio (and on top of my prior thoughts about this anyway) I think that they earned them and the government is meddling where they ought not to be.

I'm actually in that camp too. Everyone talks about how bungled up government mangement is in education and health and then expect the higher ups in those organizations to work for less than six figure salaries with absolutely no bonuses or raises ever. I can't see how under those political constraints you can ever hope to get the proper people to build a good organization in a province where the private sector pays hefty coin. Who would want to work for a organization that promises bonuses for certain targets being reached and then has them yanked whenever it's politically expediant for the health minister to do so?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

I'm actually in that camp too. Everyone talks about how bungled up government mangement is in education and health and then expect the higher ups in those organizations to work for less than six figure salaries with absolutely no bonuses or raises ever. I can't see how under those political constraints you can ever hope to get the proper people to build a good organization in a province where the private sector pays hefty coin. Who would want to work for a organization that promises bonuses for certain targets being reached and then has them yanked whenever it's politically expediant for the health minister to do so?

Well that's just it. I know that if this was any private company that people would be up in arms. Its a signed contract and the targets are both transparent and measurable. To just decide arbitrarily that "were not going to honour the contract" is ridiculous actually.

[DuffMan]

^^^^^ let me guess, you two are in the Public service?

They don't meet their targets, why should they get bonuses, unless I am completely confused on the whole premise of what a bonus means and why it should be rewarded. Or should they just flat out change the name from bonus to entitlement.

But Wildrose MLA Kerry Towle cited AHS failure to meet targets in eight out of nine areas. The agency’s running behind targets for everything from coronary artery bypass and cataract surgeries to hip and knee replacements — even radiation for cancer patients.

The target in emergency is for 75% of patients to be admitted within eight hours; current numbers show just 46% of cases get admitted in that time. “Why are we giving anyone a bonus if they can’t even meet their targets? Why have targets? I don’t know about you, but if I only performed at 46% I don’t think my boss would give me a bonus,” Towle said.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2013/03/27...d-over-bonuses