Greece Is The Word

[Ozy_Flame]

Hey, the Polish did a mass exodus in the last 90's / early 2000's to Western Europe, and now the Polish economy is one of the strongest in the EU!

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

What I don't understand is why there isn't a mass exodus of Greeks to places like Germany and Scandinavia as citizens, where the economies are markedly better.

Because the Turks got there first and took all the plum jerbs.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by valo403

Am I the only one who never considered Greece to be rich? Unless we're going back to antiquity they have been a fairly mid table economic power for a while.

Yeah, aside from a pretty big shipping industry, olives and tourism don't cut it.

I might put myself in hot water a little bit, but personally, I don't think Balkan culture mixes well with EU expectations. Aside from the entrenched corruption from Slovenia to Greece to Romania, and everywhere in between, there is a cultural divide in values with that region and the EU powerhouses. If you go to any Balkan country, there is less emphasis on financial success if the hard work comes at the expense of family time and current happiness. It's not as much a part of the culture to invest time at the expense of living in the now. And honestly, I think people are fundamentally happier like that.

Obviously this is a hugely general statement as there are a lot of very successful people from that region who don't fit the sterotype, but I stand by it for the most part. It's just not realistic to expect the everyday person in Greece (and neighbouring countries) to live up to what Germany and France expects.

[Barnet Flame]

I'd miss the CBC if it went. Some of the programming is excellent and it is genuinely uniquely Canadian and helps me keep in touch with the land I grew up in and still love.

I think comparisons with the BBC are unfair - the funding the BBC gets is insane. I have to pay over £12/ circa $20 a month for a tv license to fund the Beeb. Don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge that - I'm watching a fantastic programme on BBC2 right now with my son.

Oh, and to keep this on topic, I'm going on vacation to Kephalonia in August. I'll report back my findings on the local economy upon my return,

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by polak

Government funded crap. I don't know much about CBC's financials but how competitive would they really be if it weren't for taxpayer funds?

I have nothing against public broadcasting but CBC is awful. If it was even 1/10th of the BBC I'd have no complaints.

No offense, but I don't think you're the intended audience. You're a 20 year old dude whose priorities are probably drinking, clubbing and chasing girls (ideally in Europe!).... as they should be at that age.

You don't have to be Peter to appreciate it, but I definitely like CBC more as I age....it's not all good by any means (all the fictional series type stuff is awful). but there's lots of good stuff. Solid news programming, great documentaries, Olympics coverage that is eons above the Americans, HNIC (despite the awful panel the last few years), good talent like George Strombolopolous, Jian Ghomeshi etc.

Without public funding, CBC turns into CTV. A crapstastic television station whose best programming is American reruns I can get elsewhere. No thanks.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Greek's are going through a metaphorical full-body surgery right now. Everything hurts right now, but all necessary evils.

I would say public broadcasting is one of the first things to get axed outside of emergency messaging.

Captain Crunch: I heard 60-80 % of Greeks commit tax evasion of varying degrees.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Yeah, I know it was a ludicrous number in terms of evaders, which is funny considering that a lot of them probably work for the government

I was trying to look it up, but from 2011 to last year it was illegal to fire a civil servant.it was actually written into their constitution. so basically you could show up for work, masturbate on a cat 5 hours a day while leering at a co-workers boobies and you couldn't be fired.

A cop was recently sentenced to 30 years in prison for killing a kid and he's still getting paid while he sits in prison.

Suppossedly the plan is to tie a can to the tail of 15,000 civil servants by the end of next year. And to force 1,400 civil servants who have broken the law or been imprisoned to quit.

The Greece civil service numbers about 750,000 people. to put this into perspective they have a population of 11 million people with a something like a third or so under a working age.

Now to put that into perspective, Canada has a population of 34 million and a federal government payroll of about 268,000.

And we're incredibly bloated and inefficient.

All true. No disputing these facts. However…

The alleged solution delayed the facing of these facts. In the process of delaying these realities, skimmed off billions of dollars to the Eurozone banks, mostly German and French. Prolonging the status quo, delaying the inevitable, making the inevitable much worse than if faced three or five years ago, certain favored entities getting paid billions in the process.

To extend your metaphor, total body surgery. The surgeons, getting well paid. Unfortunately, the disease is sepsis; bacterial infection of the blood. Surgery is 100% useless; the proper treatment (antibiotics/exit from the currency union and return to the drachma) would've been painful, but effective. Now, it will be painful, and ineffective. And the organs that are still good (tv stations, electrical utilities, other infrastructure) sold off for pennies to the same class of surgeons.

The proper medicine should've been swallowed years ago. Now it is too late. This sequence is being repeated in many other nations, including the United States of America.

[Locke]

Most Germans have a second property for recreation.....they call it Greece.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

All true. No disputing these facts. However…

The alleged solution delayed the facing of these facts. In the process of delaying these realities, skimmed off billions of dollars to the Eurozone banks, mostly German and French. Prolonging the status quo, delaying the inevitable, making the inevitable much worse than if faced three or five years ago, certain favored entities getting paid billions in the process.

To extend your metaphor, total body surgery. The surgeons, getting well paid. Unfortunately, the disease is sepsis; bacterial infection of the blood. Surgery is 100% useless; the proper treatment (antibiotics/exit from the currency union and return to the drachma) would've been painful, but effective. Now, it will be painful, and ineffective. And the organs that are still good (tv stations, electrical utilities, other infrastructure) sold off for pennies to the same class of surgeons.

The proper medicine should've been swallowed years ago. Now it is too late. This sequence is being repeated in many other nations, including the United States of America.

I'm assuming there is an international bankruptcy process if Greece decides to pursue it and simultaneously exit the Union.

Do all of the loans that they got from Germany go away, or do they negotiate a different payment schedule?

What's the cost to re-establish their currency.

They would lose the free trade benefits with the zone, do they suddenly have to start paying an export tariff for the goods that they do sell?

I would think that the short term gain of telling the German's and French to pound sand would be pretty enormous but the long term pain of re-establishing their own economy would be significant.

But then again how much worse could things get when 5 out of 10 people are sitting at home not working.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Table 5

No offense, but I don't think you're the intended audience. You're a 20 year old dude whose priorities are probably drinking, clubbing and chasing girls (ideally in Europe!).... as they should be at that age.

You don't have to be Peter to appreciate it, but I definitely like CBC more as I age....it's not all good by any means (all the fictional series type stuff is awful). but there's lots of good stuff. Solid news programming, great documentaries, Olympics coverage that is eons above the Americans, HNIC (despite the awful panel the last few years), good talent like George Strombolopolous, Jian Ghomeshi etc.

Without public funding, CBC turns into CTV. A crapstastic television station whose best programming is American reruns I can get elsewhere. No thanks.

To me though and I'm getting older I'm the opposite. I just don't see the value in CBC at all. Then again I don't listen to radio station at all.

In terms of documentaries, I usually get better ones on national geographic, the documentary channel, the history channel and others.

In terms of hockey, I get more Flames games elsewhere and am just as likely to get hockey games on other channels instead of the CBC.

In terms of the Olympics, the CBC is very good in the coverage, but if you put that programming on a private network that lives and dies by advertising revenue you will eventually get an improved showcase broadcast. I look at how dreadful the CBC was with CFL football, and how TSN has done an amazing job of actually helping to grow that league.

In terms of Canadian content shows, I'm sure that you would agree that there are much better canadian shows on other channels, and Canadian series have taken a step forward since they've stepped away from the CBC dominated sphere of influence. On top of that a lot of good Canadian content is now being developed in co-american/canadian projects.

In terms of the news, I can find the news elsewhere and honestly I get a lot more news online then on t.v.

Even the original mandate that the CBC was there to ensure coast to coast access to media is gone with the internet and satellite television coverage. The day of only receiving the CBC in the North is gone.

The juice of the CBC is no longer worth the squeeze. When your talking a billion dollars from the taxpayers that could be better spent elsewhere, then the return on investment just isn't worth it with the CBC anymore.

Ideally they could trim that massive budget down and stick to a 24 hour news channel like they have now that has documentaries as part of their programs.

It doesn't help that the CBC is considered to be the fat cat of government agencies as far as executive and worker entitlement and their constant track record on non disclosure.

[polak]

I'll respect CBC when they give me a Top Gear

[TheyCallMeBruce]

They can probably solve this by employing more Hoplites and Peltasts

[valo403]

Originally Posted by polak

I'll respect CBC when they give me a Top Gear

Don't ask for that. They tried that in the US and created one of the worst shows I've ever seen.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Hey, the Polish did a mass exodus in the last 90's / early 2000's to Western Europe, and now the Polish economy is one of the strongest in the EU!

Poles and Greeks have vastly different cultures. The idea of a siesta in Poland would never fly... Time off work to nap? Not a chance.

Originally Posted by valo403

Don't ask for that. They tried that in the US and created one of the worst shows I've ever seen.

I meant an equivalently awesome show not a spin-off. Although I don't really know if that's possible.

[Bertuzzied]

I like the movie more than the musical.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by polak

Poles and Greeks have vastly different cultures. The idea of a siesta in Poland would never fly... Time off work to nap? Not a chance.



I meant an equivalently awesome show not a spin-off. Although I don't really know if that's possible.

Part of the reason why Top Gear is so good is that it is broadcast on a channel that does not rely on income from commercials. Consequently they can be completely objective and do whatever they want without pressure put on the channel by advertisers threatening to withdraw their business if the content of the programme is not to their likeing.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by polak

Poles and Greeks have vastly different cultures. The idea of a siesta in Poland would never fly... Time off work to nap? Not a chance.

Good ol' fashioned Eastern European work ethic. Bust your ass all day, then come home and enjoy hard liquor.

[ripTDR]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

All true. No disputing these facts. However…

The alleged solution delayed the facing of these facts. In the process of delaying these realities, skimmed off billions of dollars to the Eurozone banks, mostly German and French. Prolonging the status quo, delaying the inevitable, making the inevitable much worse than if faced three or five years ago, certain favored entities getting paid billions in the process.

To extend your metaphor, total body surgery. The surgeons, getting well paid. Unfortunately, the disease is sepsis; bacterial infection of the blood. Surgery is 100% useless; the proper treatment (antibiotics/exit from the currency union and return to the drachma) would've been painful, but effective. Now, it will be painful, and ineffective. And the organs that are still good (tv stations, electrical utilities, other infrastructure) sold off for pennies to the same class of surgeons.

The proper medicine should've been swallowed years ago. Now it is too late. This sequence is being repeated in many other nations, including the United States of America.

extremely well put

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I'm assuming there is an international bankruptcy process if Greece decides to pursue it and simultaneously exit the Union.

Do all of the loans that they got from Germany go away, or do they negotiate a different payment schedule?

What's the cost to re-establish their currency.

They would lose the free trade benefits with the zone, do they suddenly have to start paying an export tariff for the goods that they do sell?

I would think that the short term gain of telling the German's and French to pound sand would be pretty enormous but the long term pain of re-establishing their own economy would be significant.

But then again how much worse could things get when 5 out of 10 people are sitting at home not working.

This has not been avoided. This was going to happen regardless. Except, it is more painful now than three years ago.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

This has not been avoided. This was going to happen regardless. Except, it is more painful now than three years ago.

Sounds like the flames rebuild.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Sounds like the flames rebuild.

Best analogy ever.