General Ongoing Coyotes saga thread

[valo403]

Originally Posted by 604flames

Could be way wrong on this, but I remember reading somewhere that the NHL TV deal in the "Original 12" days stipulated there had to be a team in the Bay Area, otherwise the Oakland Seals would have moved to Vancouver.

It wouldn't surprise me at all. A network would obviously have a strong interest in any national deal it signed reaching certain markets, removing one of them obviously impacts their bottom line. I'm not sure that there would be any language prohibiting the NHL from moving a team out of Phoenix in the NBC deal, this is a much different era than the Original 12 days, but you can be certain that the situation in Phoenix was part of the greater discussions.

[troutman]

Glendale's Westgate sees influx of bars, eateries


http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...ries-bars.html

The Westgate Entertainment District area hasn’t seen such an influx of new businesses since shortly after opening seven years ago.

Westgate officials this week announced that Whiskey Rose Saloon, a bar, restaurant and music venue dressed in Southern flair, will open by July. That follows last month’s news that Buffalo Wild Wings will open by football season.

Across 95th Avenue, just outside Westgate proper, the area recently got its first coffee shop, Flora House Cafe, since Tulley’s Coffee closed a year ago. And next door sits the newly opened Majestic Sports and Grill, which is geared toward a Latino crowd with Mexican food and international soccer games on the TVs.

Westgate development manager Jeff Teetsel said to expect more to come. Four or five other business owners are ironing out the final details with Westgate management.

Dorante’s restaurant moved to west Glendale four years ago, on the heels of the economic meltdown and the Phoenix Coyotes’ bankruptcy. The corridor near Glendale Avenue and Loop 101, which depended heavily on hockey fans headed to games at Jobing.com Arena, took another blow two years later when lenders foreclosed on Westgate.

Dorantes stuck it out despite fears that the area housed too many restaurants for too few customers. On a good Friday, he said he was lucky to bring in $500.

Then Tanger Outlets opened next door in November, which he said saved his business. He now pulls in $5,000 on Fridays, and there’s plenty of customers to go around, he said.

[troutman]

Beacon receives four offers to manage Jobing.com Arena


http://www.glendalestar.com/news/art...9bb2963f4.html

Beacon is going over the four offers this week and is scheduled to present the offers in an administrative meeting with the City of Glendale June 10 with a final selection within the next two weeks.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by troutman

There could be many reasons. Let's make a list of possible reasons (please add to):

1. The NHL is sincere about exploring all possibilities before leaving a market.

Of course they are. Folding teams or moving teams is typically not the way to grow a sport. Unless it's the NFL, leagues take teams moving or folding very seriously and they should.

2. It is important to NBC that the 6th largest market in the USA be in the NHL.

Possible, but I don't think the Coyotes are much of a concern to them. There is a reason the broadcasts are dominated by the Rangers, Bruins, Hawks, Wings and California teams.

3. It is important to DAL, LA, SJ, ANA and COL, that there be another team in the SW.

I doubt it.

4. The NHL would rather expand to QUE, than relocate there.

no question. The expansion fees will likely be far more than relocation fees. The owners pocket more money in expansion than relocation. Certainly that is the case for more Canadian teams in strong markets such as southern Ontario....not sure if Quebec city is that strong of a market. I don't think the NHL really wanted to move the Thrashers to Winnipeg but they really had no other choice at the time. I still think you'll see a team in Kansas City in the Sprint Center owned by AEG. I know people look at the city and think it's too small etc but there is a boatload of investment money to be had in that city. It's a well off city (headquarters of Applebees, Hallmark, H&R Block, Sprint to name a few). Median household income is higher than St.Louis with lower living expenses, and per capita income for the city is top 30 in the US.

5. The NHL believes the PHO market has potential for growth.

you only have to look at Dallas to know that if they can manage to get it right that the possibility exists.

6. The NHL has a desperate partner in Glendale.

yep.

7. The NHL is delaying in PHO until SEA is ready (a similar TV market to PHO).

Not sure about this. They've already used Kansas City as a pawn for the Pens. I think if they wanted to move the team in the very near future it would have already been done. I believe Kansas City is a top 30 TV market, though admittedly not top 15 like Seattle and Phoenix and about half the size. Then again, I'd wager more people already play and watch hockey in Kansas City than in Phoenix that the actual eyeballs on the screen would be higher in Kansas City.

Most important is I want NHL hockey 2-2.5 hours from me! I don't like driving the over 4 hours to St. Louis or 6 hours to Dallas.

[troutman]

I'm not sure Dallas is a good example for growth. True, there is more grass roots minor hockey there than before, but NHL attendance is sagging, and DAL has the lowest ticket prices in the NHL.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by troutman

I'm not sure Dallas is a good example for growth. True, there is more grass roots minor hockey there than before, but NHL attendance is sagging, and DAL has the lowest ticket prices in the NHL.

It's not a coincidence that sales sagged when they had significant issues with ownership and a few years of poor teams.

[troutman]

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...439601&page=27

Habs owner Geoff Molson was asked a question about the fact the NHL is lending $85M to the Coyotes yesterday and he said the governors haven't received anything about that particular matter.
http://video.canadiens.nhl.com/video...257971&lang=fr
The interview is in French.

Craig Morgan‏@cmorganfoxaz
Radio silence from both sides on Wed. meeting between Anthony LeBlanc & Dick Bowers. The meeting happened. That's all I can report. #Coyotes

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by troutman

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...439601&page=27

Habs owner Geoff Molson was asked a question about the fact the NHL is lending $85M to the Coyotes yesterday and he said the governors haven't received anything about that particular matter.
http://video.canadiens.nhl.com/video...257971&lang=fr
The interview is in French.

Craig Morgan‏@cmorganfoxaz
Radio silence from both sides on Wed. meeting between Anthony LeBlanc & Dick Bowers. The meeting happened. That's all I can report. #Coyotes

I guess that blows out of the water the idea that Bettman only takes action on orders from the BOG.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I guess that blows out of the water the idea that Bettman only takes action on orders from the BOG.

Or the Forbes report about the NHL lending money to the new group is bogus and the commisioner doesn't need to ask for something they don't need. See conspiracy theories and assumptions work both ways.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Or the Forbes report about the NHL lending money to the new group is bogus and the commisioner doesn't need to ask for something they don't need. See conspiracy theories and assumptions work both ways.

So your defence is that Forbes is lying, what's their motivation? I'm arriving at a conclusion from a report from an established source. You're deriving your conclusion from out of your posterior.

[valo403]

Or, the BoG has previously authorized the Commissioner to engage in certain actions in furtherance of a sale of the Coyotes in order to avoid multiple votes on each and every decision. You know, the way pretty much every single corporation in the world operates.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by valo403

Or, the BoG has previously authorized the Commissioner to engage in certain actions in furtherance of a sale of the Coyotes in order to avoid multiple votes on each and every decision. You know, the way pretty much every single corporation in the world operates.

Yeah, of course. I'd just change the word "certain" to "almost any" actions. It looks to me that Phoenix is Bettman's baby. My original poke was at those who believe that the BOG makes every decision and Gary is their puppet. Bettman is, maybe not the most powerful man in hockey, but close to it.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Yeah, of course. I'd just change the word "certain" to "almost any" actions. It looks to me that Phoenix is Bettman's baby. My original poke was at those who believe that the BOG makes every decision and Gary is their puppet. Bettman is, maybe not the most powerful man in hockey, but close to it.

He's like the CEO of any company, he holds a lot of power and has a lot of authority over most matters, but if those who placed him there don't approve of his decisions they have the power to easily remove him.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

It looks to me that Phoenix is Bettman's baby.

I love that you trotted this canard out one post after accusing someone else of pulling an opinion out of their ass.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I love that you trotted this canard out one post after accusing someone else of pulling an opinion out of their ass.

Well judging by the response of the Montreal owner, the BoGs aren't running the negotiations or even being kept up to date, so what conclusion would you come to? I've got backup for my opinions, what do you have?

[Resolute 14]

No, you're merely behaving like any typical conspiracy theorist. You start with the conclusion you want then try to twist everything to fit it.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

No, you're merely behaving like any typical conspiracy theorist. You start with the conclusion you want then try to twist everything to fit it.

So again, what's your conclusion?

Try answering the question instead of your usual personal attack.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

So again, what's your conclusion?

Try answering the question instead of your usual personal attack.

That's not a personal attack, it's an accurate assessment of your approach.

Each and every member of the BoG is not going to be polled, or even updated, on every development re: Phoenix. The fact that you think any business would operate in such a manner is absurd.

[troutman]

I agree Bettman must have much latitude, but I would think an $85 million loan is something you would run by the board (assuming these details are correct)?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by valo403

That's not a personal attack, it's an accurate assessment of your approach.

Each and every member of the BoG is not going to be polled, or even updated, on every development re: Phoenix. The fact that you think any business would operate in such a manner is absurd.

Why don't we have a poll for an accurate assessment of what other posters think of your approach. It won't be flattering.

"Each and every member of the BoG is not going to be polled, or even updated, on every development re: Phoenix".

In fact that's my argument, they aren't being consulted and when did I ever suggest that Bettman and the NHL would operate in any other manner. You really are a piece of work and not a very smart one at that.