Trade Deadline Deals - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Northendzone · 06-09-2013, 01:27 PM

So it seems to me that the Penguins mortgaged a chunk of thier future to acquire Iggy and Morrow and they advanced to round three.

I am trying to remember a star player player who was traded at or near trade deadline day and the acquiring team won the cup that year.

Theo was traded to the Avs and they did not win, took Borque until the next full season.

Seems to me that if you are a contending team then you need to resist the urge to make a major deal as it just seems to disruptive.

Make some depth deals and then put your phone on call forward.

Any thoughts or evidence to the contrary?

kyuss275 · 06-09-2013, 01:34 PM

I would not say they mortgaged their future picking up those 2 players. Iggy was pretty much had for a late first round pick. I doubt Pitt cares about the losing Agostino or Hanowski.

Can't remember what Morrow trade was other than Joe Morrow going to Dallas. I believe Pitt also got a draft pick coming back.

MrMastodonFarm · 06-09-2013, 01:38 PM

Yeah, they paid a decent price for the those guys but not anything near mortgaging the future. When you're drafting and developing as well as the Penguins have it allows you to make moves like those without feeling much of a pinch.

trackercowe · 06-09-2013, 01:48 PM

Well Jagr went to the Bruins (and Redden for that matter), and Handzus went to the Blackhawks this year. Not really star power, and they probably would have made it this far without them.

But it just goes to show that the right move is often made through smaller acquisitions or through retooling rather than bringing in big name guys that you expect too much from come the playoffs.

It has to be difficult for a player like Iginla to leave a team that he has spent his entire career for, and quickly learn a new system; in a different conference, facing opponents he hasn't played in a year while on a playoff run. I'm not really at all surprised he fared poorly as the playoffs went on and began facing more difficult opponents.

At least with Jagr he's played out East most of his career and knows the different styles of play he needs to be accustomed to out there.

PlayfulGenius · 06-09-2013, 01:59 PM

Didn't he Bruins pick up Horton the year they won??

And the Kings got Carter and Richards for their run??

It seems to me the Cup winner often makes a significant move or 2, and that's why teams keep doing it.

Hossa was picked up by PIT, though they lost in the final.

Milt Schmidt · 06-09-2013, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

Didn't he Bruins pick up Horton the year they won??

And the Kings got Carter and Richards for their run??

It seems to me the Cup winner often makes a significant move or 2, and that's why teams keep doing it.

Hossa was picked up by PIT, though they lost in the final.

The Bruins got Horton before the season started, not at the deadline. Same thing for Richards in LA, but Carter was a deadline deal.

The Bruins got Kaberle at the 2011 deadline, and he did pretty much nothing. Kelly and Peverly were acquired a while before the deadline too, and they were important in the cup win.

Milt

PlayfulGenius · 06-09-2013, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milt Schmidt

The Bruins got Horton before the season started, not at the deadline. Same thing for Richards in LA, but Carter was a deadline deal.

The Bruins got Kaberle at the 2011 deadline, and he did pretty much nothing. Kelly and Peverly were acquired a while before the deadline too, and they were important in the cup win.

Milt

Ok, right, that's an important distinction...players moved right at the deadline.

I think it would be fun to analyze every finalist over the past 20 years or more and see what moves they made after the halfway point of the season or so.

AC · 06-09-2013, 02:14 PM

Here are the recent cup winners and their deadline (or just prior to) pickups:

2012 - LA picked up Carter
2011 - Boston picked up Peverley and Kaberle
2010 - Chicago picked up Boynton
2009 - Pittsburgh picked up Kunitz and Guerin
2008 - Detroit picked up Brad Stuart
2007 - Anaheim picked up Brad May
2006 - Carolina picked up Mark Recchi
2003 - New Jersey picked up Grant Marshall
2002 - Detroit picked up Jiri Slegr
2001 - Colorado picked up Rob Blake and Steven Reinprecht
2000 - New Jersey picked up Alexander Mogilny
1998 - Detroit picked up Jamie Macoun
1997 - Detroit picked up Larry Murphy
1994 - NYR picked up Craig MacTavish, Glenn Anderson, and Stephane Matteau
1993 - Montreal picked up Rob Ramage
1991 - Pittsburgh picked up Ron Francis and Ulf Samuelsson

Only a few star players, lots of key depth though.

PlayfulGenius · 06-09-2013, 02:17 PM

Thanks AC... I think for any team, making to the Cup final makes for a successful season, even if they lose... I think that's an important distinction when considering if the team made a smart deadline deal.

Roof-Daddy · 06-09-2013, 02:25 PM

Penguins gave up:

Joe Morrow
Ben Hanowski
Kenneth Agostino
2013 1st Round Pick (28th Overall)
2013 2nd Round Pick (58th Overall)
2013 5th Round Pick (149th Overall)
2014 2nd Round Pick (Yet to be determined)

For:

Jarome Iginla
Brendan Morrow
Douglas Murray
2013 3rd Round Pick (77th Overall)

Roof-Daddy · 06-09-2013, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Penguins gave up:

Joe Morrow
Ben Hanowski
Kenneth Agostino
2013 1st Round Pick (28th Overall)
2013 2nd Round Pick (58th Overall)
2013 5th Round Pick (149th Overall)
2014 2nd Round Pick (Yet to be determined)

For:

Jarome Iginla
Brendan Morrow
Douglas Murray
2013 3rd Round Pick (77th Overall)

..and for comparison's sake, the Bruins gave up:

Lane MacDermid
Cody Payne
2013 1st Round Pick (29th or 30th Overall)
2014 6th Round Pick (Yet to be determined)

For:

Jaromir Jagr
Wade Redden

Just goes to show, that you never know.

The Penguins appeared to have the better team, with the better record and two of the best players in the world currently, gave up way more and added a lot more, only to be swept out of the third round by the Bruins.

zunie75 · 06-09-2013, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trackercowe

Well Jagr went to the Bruins (and Redden for that matter), and Handzus went to the Blackhawks this year. Not really star power, and they probably would have made it this far without them.

But it just goes to show that the right move is often made through smaller acquisitions or through retooling rather than bringing in big name guys that you expect too much from come the playoffs.

It has to be difficult for a player like Iginla to leave a team that he has spent his entire career for, and quickly learn a new system; in a different conference, facing opponents he hasn't played in a year while on a playoff run. I'm not really at all surprised he fared poorly as the playoffs went on and began facing more difficult opponents.

At least with Jagr he's played out East most of his career and knows the different styles of play he needs to be accustomed to out there.

Not to mention doing all that while not playing on the wing you're used to.

mrdonkey · 06-09-2013, 03:00 PM

The only piece of significance the penguins gave up was Joe Morrow. They will be fine.

Phanuthier · 06-09-2013, 03:35 PM

Maybe they gave up a bit much for Morrow, but a late 1st and marginal picks for Iginla is no big deal.

jeffman · 06-09-2013, 03:38 PM

Yeah, Carter was pretty helpful to the Kings laast year

FlameZilla · 06-09-2013, 05:21 PM

This crossed my mind earlier today. I was specifically thinking of Darryl Sutter's deadline trades for big-name guys. Obviously intending on bolstering the line-up, I think there is an element of the chemistry changing.

The Calgary Flames were a very good team 2005-2009. Acquiring Brad Stuart, or Olli Jokinen etc. improved the team on paper but we didn't get the results. We may have been better off with the heart&soul players that Sutter was hell-bent on upgrading. I'm thinking of Lydman, Gelinas, Ference, Lombardi, Nemo & later on the Hamrliks, Cammys & Huseliuses that were really effective but forced out by high-salaried 'upgrades' in other positions. Hindsight yes, but the more Darryl tinkered with the team to improve it the more it lost the chemistry that made it a solid team in the first place.

trackercowe · 06-09-2013, 05:40 PM

^ All true, but Cammalleri wasn't really forced out. Montreal overpaid him, which took the Flames out of the running. The same goes with Tanguay once again with Montreal (jerks). Good players, but not worth the contracts they were signed to at the time.

killer_carlson · 06-09-2013, 05:56 PM

Hamrlik "won the lottery" with that Montreal contract.

Loved him as a Flame, and Phaneuf hasnt been the same without him, but that contract was nuts.

Northendzone · 06-09-2013, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

The only piece of significance the penguins gave up was Joe Morrow. They will be fine.

Fair enough, perhaps my mortgage the future comment was a little strong.

I still think adding large pieces at the trade deadline, or somewhat close to, is a huge gamble that more often than not does not pay off in terms of a cup. In the case of Blake, it obviously paid off for the Ava as they got a productive piece for many years.

I would have to think that iggy's arrival in Pitt changed thier locker room dynamic in some fashion. Maybe they win the cup if they don't make the trade

Phanuthier · 06-09-2013, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northendzone

Fair enough, perhaps my mortgage the future comment was a little strong.

I still think adding large pieces at the trade deadline, or somewhat close to, is a huge gamble that more often than not does not pay off in terms of a cup. In the case of Blake, it obviously paid off for the Ava as they got a productive piece for many years.

I would have to think that iggy's arrival in Pitt changed thier locker room dynamic in some fashion. Maybe they win the cup if they don't make the trade

I thought that would be obvious... only 1 team wins a cup, and 4-5 teams try this every year.