Conservative MP quits

[Cube Inmate]

I'll show my face as one of those CPC voters someone was calling out above (I've been voting Reform and successors since I was 17). To me, the CPC has turned into *exactly* what I despised about the Chretien Liberals: entitled, slimy, corrupt, directionless, focused on nothing but consolidating their own power, etc. Some of the BS up to this moment has been "excusable" (in the eyes of a Liberal-hater), but my will was pretty much broken by the $90,000 payment. This Rathgeber news item here was the last straw. In 2006, this PM gave a cabinet position to a guy who crossed the floor immediately after being elected (as a Liberal), and now his office is demanding that another guy who quit the party on principle face a by-election? The height of hypocrisy!

The Harper Conservatives have no sense of ethics; no principles that I can discern. And, strangely enough, Harper's political instincts seem to be pretty lousy right now. Given every opportunity to do the "upstanding" thing (e.g. request Duffy's resignation, support "transparency" laws), he now does the opposite.

I can honestly say that if Martha Hall Findlay had won the Liberal leadership, I would vote for that party today. I still don't believe in their big-government, bend-over-for-your-enemy world view, but this government needs changing for the same reason as my son's diapers....

[SebC]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

I just wanted to point out the beyond annoying Action Plan commercials are.

They're annoying because they're advertising (with taxpayer money) something that the Conservatives didn't want to do!

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

I'll show my face as one of those CPC voters someone was calling out above (I've been voting Reform and successors since I was 17). To me, the CPC has turned into *exactly* what I despised about the Chretien Liberals: entitled, slimy, corrupt, directionless, focused on nothing but consolidating their own power, etc.

[...]

I can honestly say that if Martha Hall Findlay had won the Liberal leadership, I would vote for that party today. I still don't believe in their big-government, bend-over-for-your-enemy world view, but this government needs changing for the same reason as my son's diapers....

To punishment voting, the cause of and solution to all of life's problems!

Any government will have its share of scandals. Vote for the one that has policies you believe in.

[Cube Inmate]

Originally Posted by SebC

Any government will have its share of scandals. Vote for the one that has policies you believe in.

Which policies should I believe? Smaller government and controlled spending? Transparency and accountability in government? Fewer bad guys on the street? A chicken in every pot, a car in every garage?

It's not enough to pick the one that's "closest" to what I believe in, if (a) I don't believe they can deliver it and (b) it comes with elements that are completely unacceptable to me. That doesn't mean my vote will necessarily go to Dreamy Justin, and certainly not to Commie Tommy, but the days of me actually supporting Harper's crew are done...and it will take a significant sell job for anyone to earn my vote. It seems that Brent Rathgeber agrees with this -- it's not enough to just sit with the ones you're closest to in policies, if some of those policies or behaviours are repellent. I'll be curious to see if he actually runs as an independent next time, or if he feels compelled to join up with another party.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

It's not enough to pick the one that's "closest" to what I believe in, if (a) I don't believe they can deliver it and (b) it comes with elements that are completely unacceptable to me. That doesn't mean my vote will necessarily go to Dreamy Justin, and certainly not to Commie Tommy, but the days of me actually supporting Harper's crew are done...and it will take a significant sell job for anyone to earn my vote. It seems that Brent Rathgeber agrees with this -- it's not enough to just sit with the ones you're closest to in policies, if some of those policies or behaviours are repellent. I'll be curious to see if he actually runs as an independent next time, or if he feels compelled to join up with another party.

Fair enough. I just wanted to remind people that voting for the Conservatives to get rid of the Liberals is what got us the Harper government in the first place.

As for Rathberger, his situation hasn't really changed. He may be powerless now as a minority government facing a majority, but it seems he felt equally powerless within that majority. As a voter, if you choose not to vote you are giving up your power entirely, or if you vote for a party whose policies you don't support to spite another, then you are using the power you have counterproductively.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

I guess I kind of disagree. To me, using your vote to hold elected officials accountable is a key, and very important exercise of democratic power. Otherwise officials can count on our votes just by paying lip service to principles that they know we agree with, and are otherwise free to line their own pockets and those of their friends on the public dime.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by SebC

Fair enough. I just wanted to remind people that voting for the Conservatives to get rid of the Liberals is what got us the Harper government in the first place.

And frankly they deserved it. The liberals got too comfy and needed to get booted out the door. Now it's the Conservatives turn. Hopefully the next party that forms government will be keenly aware that they need to operate openly and honestly. It's our job as voters to hold government to account.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Free Ben Hur!

Yeah, experience isn't really that important after all.

So older people are always more qualified and their opinions should be considered correct when compared with people who are younger?

Sounds like a reasonable position.

[KelVarnsen]

Originally Posted by SebC

They're annoying because they're advertising (with taxpayer money) something that the Conservatives didn't want to do!

Yeah the conservatives are only over playing them because are advertising something they didn't want.

[Free Ben Hur!]

Originally Posted by Rathji

So older people are always more qualified and their opinions should be considered correct when compared with people who are younger?

Sounds like a reasonable position.

I actually didn't say anything about older peoples opinions being considered correct by default. Nice twist, but back to the real issue which is competency.

Real world, relevant experience is a significant component of competency. Paint it in a discriminatory light all you like but there's no getting away from the fact that competency doesn't come from a text book nor is it inherent in either the young or the old. Skill in anything comes from the practical application of knowledge and sufficient repetition to gain mastery. This can apply to the young but more frequently the older.

So are these guys in the PMO competent? Well they certainly aren't simply because they are young. And they certainly aren't simply because they have degrees. They might be, however, with the correct mix of education, relevant experience and acquired skills.

[redforever]

For someone who introduced a private member's bill for more open and transparent gov't, this man did the exact opposite with his own riding, not even being transparent enough to inform his own riding of his intentions when he quit the Conservative caucus.

He is also the man who wanted the abortion debate reopened so people should be careful what they wish for when supporting him.

[killer_carlson]

Well one of the riding association who was also formerly an elected politician also resigned, so he does have some support.

And correct me if i am wrong, was the abortion debate he wanted opened not the debate about abortion solely on the basis of gender of the baby?

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by redforever

For someone who introduced a private member's bill for more open and transparent gov't, this man did the exact opposite with his own riding, not even being transparent enough to inform his own riding of his intentions when he quit the Conservative caucus.

He is also the man who wanted the abortion debate reopened so people should be careful what they wish for when supporting him.

I think you've got the wrong hombre. The MP that wanted to have the gender abortion opened up was Mark Warawa from Langley not Rathgeber.

Are you not upset by the fact that his bill to disclose public salaries was gutted? I am and I am certain that the people in his riding are too. Do we not elect MP's to attend parliament with our interests in mind?

Frankly I don't know how you can disagree with what he did. He threw a nice fastball right over the plate and the PM should had have crushed it out of the park. Instead he showed his true colours and opted for more secrecy.

We need more MP's like Rathgeber.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

I think you've got the wrong hombre. The MP that wanted to have the gender abortion opened up was Mark Warawa from Langley not Rathgeber.

Are you not upset by the fact that his bill to disclose public salaries was gutted? I am and I am certain that the people in his riding are too. Do we not elect MP's to attend parliament with our interests in mind?

Frankly I don't know how you can disagree with what he did. He threw a nice fastball right over the plate and the PM should had have crushed it out of the park. Instead he showed his true colours and opted for more secrecy.

We need more MP's like Rathgeber.

No, I have no problem with the bill, although similar bills in Ontario etc have not had much impact.

I do have a problem with him just quitting the caucus and not even talking or discussing that decision with his own constituency prior to doing so. If he wants more transparency, he certainly could have been transparent with his constituency in his Edmonton riding.

[MelBridgeman]

Yawn - when was the last time a government of Canada had no controversy -

So far it's been pretty minor with this government in comparison

[troutman]

How did Cube vote when he was 17?

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

I think you've got the wrong hombre. The MP that wanted to have the gender abortion opened up was Mark Warawa from Langley not Rathgeber.

Are you not upset by the fact that his bill to disclose public salaries was gutted? I am and I am certain that the people in his riding are too. Do we not elect MP's to attend parliament with our interests in mind?

Frankly I don't know how you can disagree with what he did. He threw a nice fastball right over the plate and the PM should had have crushed it out of the park. Instead he showed his true colours and opted for more secrecy.

We need more MP's like Rathgeber.

He supported Warawa as well as the motion brought forward in the H of C in Sept of 2012, asking for a debate on when life begins.

http://brentrathgeber.ca/wordpress/motion-312/

The CPC campaigned promising the whole abortion debate would not be revisited in the H of C. Brent and the others were fully aware of that during the last election.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by redforever

He supported Warawa as well as the motion brought forward in the H of C in Sept of 2012, asking for a debate on when life begins.

http://brentrathgeber.ca/wordpress/motion-312/

The CPC campaigned promising the whole abortion debate would not be revisited in the H of C. Brent and the others were fully aware of that during the last election.

The CPC also campaigned on transparent and accountable government and we all know how that went...

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Free Ben Hur!

I actually didn't say anything about older peoples opinions being considered correct by default. Nice twist, but back to the real issue which is competency.

Real world, relevant experience is a significant component of competency. Paint it in a discriminatory light all you like but there's no getting away from the fact that competency doesn't come from a text book nor is it inherent in either the young or the old. Skill in anything comes from the practical application of knowledge and sufficient repetition to gain mastery. This can apply to the young but more frequently the older.

So are these guys in the PMO competent? Well they certainly aren't simply because they are young. And they certainly aren't simply because they have degrees. They might be, however, with the correct mix of education, relevant experience and acquired skills.

He implied that he shouldn't have to listen to them because they were half his age, not because they were incompetent.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Yawn - when was the last time a government of Canada had no controversy -

So far it's been pretty minor with this government in comparison

In comparison to what? I know it's pretty tired to bust out de Tocqueville quotes, but I can certainly see how one would be appropriate here.