Would you guys give up our #6, our St.Louis pick, Brodie, and Reto Berra for Colorado's #1 so we could snag MacKinnon ? Cause I think Colorado may look at that one. They still get a decent pick at #6, #22, get much needed help on D and in goal. Thoughts ? As a GM, this is a proposal I would put to Colorado.
They wouldn't do that trade by a long shot and neither would I. Brodie is my biggest untouchable on this team combined with the fact that I'm not convinced another single star will solve this teams problems, not saying we shouldn't focus on drafting one but we need depth as well. Trading all of your depth for a star gives us the Flames with Iginla. I'd rather not repeat that.
Ideally we draft well this year, get a top line center with our pick and some decent depth players with our others. Since we should be awful next season, likely drafting in the top 3 if I had to guess, draft our "star" at that point without giving up the farm.
So no, can't see why either team would make that trade.
But who would be available in the top 3 next year better than MacKinnon ? I think McDavid is 2015 right ? I'm not really trading all all our depth here as the only actual Jersey wearing player is Brodie. Berra, who knows- the other two picks, who knows- you know what you are getting with MacKinnon and is a player you build a future around. Iginla just happened to turn into our franchise guy, he was #12 overall and most likely wasn't projected to be our future. MacKinnon is a higher talent and most likely a franchise guy out of the gate. Just my opinion of course, but I'm sure if we stayed the course with our current picks we will be ok. MacKinnon will sure put the butts in the seats and generate a lot of business too- not sure if Monahan (who I like) will have that impact. If the owners are making money, that means they got money to spend on the team. If Monahan and our two other picks tank, this franchise could suffer down the road big time. I think if you are gonna start a re-build, the best way is with a franchise player vs a few pretty good guys.
But who would be available in the top 3 next year better than MacKinnon ? I think McDavid is 2015 right ? I'm not really trading all all our depth here as the only actual Jersey wearing player is Brodie. Berra, who knows- the other two picks, who knows- you know what you are getting with MacKinnon and is a player you build a future around. Iginla just happened to turn into our franchise guy, he was #12 overall and most likely wasn't projected to be our future. MacKinnon is a higher talent and most likely a franchise guy out of the gate. Just my opinion of course, but I'm sure if we stayed the course with our current picks we will be ok. MacKinnon will sure put the butts in the seats and generate a lot of business too- not sure if Monahan (who I like) will have that impact. If the owners are making money, that means they got money to spend on the team. If Monahan and our two other picks tank, this franchise could suffer down the road big time. I think if you are gonna start a re-build, the best way is with a franchise player vs a few pretty good guys.
I'm sure a lot of people would argue with this when you consider it's a "franchise player" (the kid his how old? ya he sure looks to have that potential but it's still a bit early to write that in stone no?) for considerably more than a few "pretty good guys" as it would take far more than you suggested.
As I said and as Shogun said, Colorado hangs up the phone on that offer if they value Mackinnon nearly as highly as you.
Honest question, how often in history has it worked out well for a team that has cleared significant depth from the (already average in our case) farm for that one star player that for at least awhile will have no supporting cast. I don't know but I suspect it doesn't work out for the team trading the farm very often.
I'm sure a lot of people would argue with this when you consider it's a "franchise player" (the kid his how old? ya he sure looks to have that potential but it's still a bit early to write that in stone no?) for considerably more than a few "pretty good guys" as it would take far more than you suggested.
As I said and as Shogun said, Colorado hangs up the phone on that offer if they value Mackinnon nearly as highly as you.
Honest question, how often in history has it worked out well for a team that has cleared significant depth from the (already average in our case) farm for that one star player that for at least awhile will have no supporting cast. I don't know but I suspect it doesn't work out for the team trading the farm very often.
Well, I would have to say that the occurance even hasn't happened very often- as you say, trading the farm for a superstar during a draft situation. As far as a number one guy turning around a franchise ala Crosby, Kane, etc etc- I think that happens more often. Again, I don't think I'm trading the farm away cause if we consider Brodie and two unknowns and Berra the farm then that's scarry. And you are right, our depth is average. Mac will have a fine supporting cast here in Cammy, Huds, Tangs, GlenX, Backs, Sven, Stemps- I think he will be fine. But who knows, Colorado takes Jones and it's in Florida's court-
How much do you value Brodie ? cause I would think any team in the league would love to have him and he is on the rise- and throw in a #6, #22 and a goalie prospect who just had a great tournament in Reto Berra. In a deep draft like this with two picks, one great prospect with NHL experience in Brodie and a really good prospect in Berra in goal (which they lack) , I don't think it's a hangin up the phone situation. They need D, they need goalie depth, and they get two picks in a deep talented draft. Just my opinion. If I was Colorado's GM, that looks like I could solve some problems as I am already deep in the center position anyways and I give up one guy for 4- all four gonna be good quality.
If it was Sven + Brodie + our 6th overall, then maybe.
I really don't think that's enough for MacKinnon. If you throw in the 2014 1st, then maybe I start listening but even then I doubt I do it if I'm Colorado/Florida.
If you are suggesting that the players be told to lose on purpose, because it's painfully obvious management did everything in their power aside from that to lose out, then you sir should take a look up north. Players should never think it is acceptable to lose.
Perhaps rather than being "pretty happy" about all the meaningless wins you should be a little more upset at some of the teams that have halfway decent NHL rosters tanking far worse than an almost entirely AHL roster.
Misplaced anger is such a funny thing. I could have ignored this as yet another "they should have found more ways to lose even tho they obviously did everything possible towards that end" nonsensical post, but the avatar with a coilers logo just terrified me that some fans actually want what the gong show up north has turned into.
Anyways... on topic. The better team won. You can't take a period off in a game like this and expect to win. I was rooting for the Winterhawks but they decided to show up and play some hockey a little too late.
You don't get it.....they should've ice the losers that sunk them to the bottom, they instead bring up a bunch of the kids trying to make a name for themselves and impress and we get wins....get a clue.
Why should i get mad at teams trying to improve their teams in a deep draft with a top 5 that don't come by too often? This team does very little the "smart" way.... you think i would love to see them lose? Are you high? No, it pissed me off to no end seeing them lose when it meant something.....pissed me off more seeing them win when there was nothing to gain and a future star to lose. Think the whole scenario through, then post a response.....don't jump down my throat when i speak some sense.....i've been watching this team for far too long to listen to your garbage.
You don't get it.....they should've ice the losers that sunk them to the bottom, they instead bring up a bunch of the kids trying to make a name for themselves and impress and we get wins....get a clue.
Why should i get mad at teams trying to improve their teams in a deep draft with a top 5 that don't come by too often? This team does very little the "smart" way.... you think i would love to see them lose? Are you high? No, it pissed me off to no end seeing them lose when it meant something.....pissed me off more seeing them win when there was nothing to gain and a future star to lose. Think the whole scenario through, then post a response.....don't jump down my throat when i speak some sense.....i've been watching this team for far too long to listen to your garbage.
Haha ok, so were going to really start with the nonsense then? Tell me what "losers" did they sit that would have helped sink them to the bottom? Please do tell, don't let facts get in the way, I really want to hear this.
I can only assume you were talking about some of the vets so lets see...
Tanguay was injured
Cammy played almost every game (didn't he sit one that the flames actually lost?)
Glencross (see Cammy)
Kipper. While he had a bad season, he still has potential to steal games, not something you want when you are trying to lose thus he sat more often than not.
Iginla. Well ya I suppose the Flames could have not traded him and literally got nothing when he left after the season. First round picks are worthless after all.
Jbo (see Iginla but after next season)
Well go on, what losers could they have played rather than calling up the hungry AHL kids? Again don't let facts get in the way of your argument
Oh a side note being that you feel the need for personal attacks because you are so worked up over it, perhaps it's time to take a step back from the ledge and become less emotionally involved with the team. Yes it sucks they aren't a Blackhawks or Pens team right now but letting it get you as angry as you seem to be is not good for ones health. Relax.
Last edited by Kaine; 05-27-2013 at 12:12 PM.
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Then at that point, I stand back and say no- overpayment by the Flames IMO.
Again if they feel Mackinnon is even half as good as you have him pegged to be, they hang up the phone at even that offer. You don't see top picks moved without massive overpayments if at all. That is why this is a bad trade for both teams, to get that guy the Flames have to overpay, and no team would be willing to give up that next big star for a few depth players.
Again if they feel Mackinnon is even half as good as you have him pegged to be, they hang up the phone at even that offer. You don't see top picks moved without massive overpayments if at all. That is why this is a bad trade for both teams, to get that guy the Flames have to overpay, and no team would be willing to give up that next big star for a few depth players.
My feeling is, usually top picks get traded for established players (ie guys going into RFA and not willing to sign with their current clubs). If say Correy Perry was RFA and wanted out of Anaheim, he'd be the type of player included in a package that can net you a top pick. The Flames have nothing like that, so getting a top pick with lower picks and prospects is just a pipedream IMO.
Would you guys give up our #6, our St.Louis pick, Brodie, and Reto Berra for Colorado's #1 so we could snag MacKinnon ? Cause I think Colorado may look at that one. They still get a decent pick at #6, #22, get much needed help on D and in goal. Thoughts ? As a GM, this is a proposal I would put to Colorado.
And I'm thankful you're not our GM haha. No offense. I get that MacKinnon's going to be a superstar and looks very much like Tavares out there, but my God. Can we leave Brodie out of trade proposals? He's the Flames best young player and looks like he could be a legitimate top 2 defender for many many years to come.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHOGUN
Anddddddddd Colorado hangs up the phone.
No they wouldn't. Look at the history of what it takes to move up. That's about what it takes.
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And I'm thankful you're not our GM haha. No offense. I get that MacKinnon's going to be a superstar and looks very much like Tavares out there, but my God. Can we leave Brodie out of trade proposals? He's the Flames best young player and looks like he could be a legitimate top 2 defender for many many years to come.
No they wouldn't. Look at the history of what it takes to move up. That's about what it takes.
I'm not so sure. Look what it took the Canucks to get the #4 pick in the 1999 draft. They had to give up their next year's 1st round pick (which was extremely valuable given that they'd just finished 2nd last in the league and 3rd to last the year before) as well as fairly established 24 year old Bryan McCabe just to get the #4 pick in an absolutely awful draft.
Given that we're talking about the #1 pick and an extremely good draft and I don't think two 1st round picks and a good young defenseman would necessarily get it done (I don't see Berra as having any real value in this). Moving up is always an expensive proposition and has only gotten more so with the increased focus on cheap young players with the salary cap coming in.
