Hockey Canada Parts Ways With Head Scouts

[moon]

Originally Posted by vilzeh

[moon logic]Canada hasn't won since 2009, but yes, they are still the best, no one comes even close, not even USA! who have only one twice after 2009, not enough! [/moon logic].

The US has won twice since 2009 but still has a much worse average finish over that time. And nice that you cherry picked 2009 to use as the cut off. Since 2004 Canada has won 5 times, or half the tournaments in that time, since 1993 Canada has won 10 times, again half the tournaments, since they started sending over their top talent Canada has won 15 times, the USA a whopping 3.

US wins the U-18 because Canada doesn't send close to their best team. That isn't an excuse it is the truth. If Canada sends over its best talent 9 times out of 10 it isn't close and the other time is like this year where the Canadian team is much better but US needs luck to win.

Take a look at the draft and the best young players in the game, they large majority come from Canada. Sure the US and others can have a good year every once and awhile but even with the wins they don't come close to consistently doing as well as Canada.

Congrats to the US for winning a couple of times but they are not anywhere close to Canada when it comes to junior aged hockey.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Red John

Sure Subban had the better resume but why hold an evaluation camp at all if you aren't going to use it. Junior players especially go through bigger ups and downs and confidence is so huge with them - Brossoit should have made that team although none of the goalies were real stellar at that camp.

You go with the hot hand in a single-knockout, short tournament.

Subban was the hot hand. He had outplayed all the goalies from the start of the season to the evaluation camp. A 4 day nothing camp should not change that at all.

The evaluation camp should be used to decide the 4-5 borderline spots and give the team a chance to get to know each other and the coaching staff. It shouldn't be used to put lesser talented guys on the team because they had a marginally better couple of days.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by vilzeh

[moon logic]Canada hasn't won since 2009, but yes, they are still the best, no one comes even close, not even USA! who have only one twice after 2009, not enough! [/moon logic].

It's a short tournament played by kids, with entirely new rosters each year. You can't decide who's best based on a couple of years.

No one can win it every year - you have to look at consistency, as well as who is developing the most players.

The US is definitely on the rise, but still no comparison to Canada (as covered by Moon's response).

The U18 tournament is irrelevant to the discussion as it doesn't represent the best players.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by moon

Subban was the hot hand. He had outplayed all the goalies from the start of the season to the evaluation camp. A 4 day nothing camp should not change that at all.

The evaluation camp should be used to decide the 4-5 borderline spots and give the team a chance to get to know each other and the coaching staff. It shouldn't be used to put lesser talented guys on the team because they had a marginally better couple of days.

At the time of camp Subban's numbers weren't any better than Brossoit's, at camp Brossoit was clearly better, it appears the numb-nuts picking the team were using draft order and politics not performance.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by moon

US wins the U-18 because Canada doesn't send close to their best team. That isn't an excuse it is the truth. If Canada sends over its best talent 9 times out of 10 it isn't close and the other time is like this year where the Canadian team is much better but US needs luck to win.

Take a look at the draft and the best young players in the game, they large majority come from Canada. Sure the US and others can have a good year every once and awhile but even with the wins they don't come close to consistently doing as well as Canada.

Congrats to the US for winning a couple of times but they are not anywhere close to Canada when it comes to junior aged hockey.

On talent alone I agree with you that Canada is still a lot better. But as a hockey team, the US often send better teams for the simple fact that most players have played with each other through the USNTDP. Familiarity with each other helps in a short tournament like the WJC.

[Locke]

Expunging more Oilers from Hockey Canada. Nothing but a good thing.

[vilzeh]

Lets all live in the past, wohoo.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by vilzeh

Lets all live in the past, wohoo.

Oilers fans have been doing it for decades which is why I would never stoop to that level. As of today the US is clearly is doing a better job of selecting the right players and coaching their junior teams. Canadians have to deal with it and hopefully this is a sign that things are changing with Hockey Canada.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Oilers fans have been doing it for decades which is why I would never stoop to that level. As of today the US is clearly is doing a better job of selecting the right players and coaching their junior teams. Canadians have to deal with it and hopefully this is a sign that things are changing with Hockey Canada.

I don't know about that. Doesn't the us national team have players playing together all year? That's a huge advantage imo. Also, in single game elimination hockey, the best teams aren't necessarily the ones who advance. Having said that, after 4 years you gotta change something

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I don't know about that. Doesn't the us national team have players playing together all year? That's a huge advantage imo. Also, in single game elimination hockey, the best teams aren't necessarily the ones who advance. Having said that, after 4 years you gotta change something

Well if we supposedly have all this talent and we are in a long slump something had to change. Either picking the wrong players to gell quickly in the tournament or the coaching hasn't been up to snuff. I will say the US has it much easier to operate as they don't have all the politics to deal with when it comes to selecting the team. I'm not sure if Canada always ices it's best possible team due to the politics.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Oilers fans have been doing it for decades which is why I would never stoop to that level. As of today the US is clearly is doing a better job of selecting the right players and coaching their junior teams. Canadians have to deal with it and hopefully this is a sign that things are changing with Hockey Canada.

Considering Canada has a better average finish over the past 5 years (not really the past) and the US finished an awesome 7th in 2012 I don't see how they have clearly done a better job.

Canada still does a much better job and it shows in the results whether in the recent history or long term history.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Well if we supposedly have all this talent and we are in a long slump something had to change. Either picking the wrong players to gell quickly in the tournament or the coaching hasn't been up to snuff. I will say the US has it much easier to operate as they don't have all the politics to deal with when it comes to selecting the team. I'm not sure if Canada always ices it's best possible team due to the politics.

Long slump? We have won 2 silvers and a bronze in the last 4 tournaments, won 5 Golds in a row the previous 5 tournaments and have lost a total of 5 games (1 in OT) over the past 4 tournaments we are supposedly in a slump. There isn't a country out there that comes close that kind of record over that period of the slump.

I know anytime we don't win it is a slump and disappointment but the Canadian team is still dominant in the tournament and still clearly the top team.

[PeteMoss]

Basically just need to avoid dopey coaches and they'll be fine. If you look back at the roster they had this year, its ridiculous they finished 4th and got whipped by the US. MacKinnon could barely get on the ice in the tournament.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by moon

Long slump? We have won 2 silvers and a bronze in the last 4 tournaments, won 5 Golds in a row the previous 5 tournaments and have lost a total of 5 games (1 in OT) over the past 4 tournaments we are supposedly in a slump. There isn't a country out there that comes close that kind of record over that period of the slump.

I know anytime we don't win it is a slump and disappointment but the Canadian team is still dominant in the tournament and still clearly the top team.

I don't know any sport where 'clearly the top team' not winning four years in a row is a success. It's obvious by these firings that Hockey Canada isn't satisfied. Obviously you aren't going to win gold every year but four straight tournaments of not winning gold when you are suposedly the superior nation is either a sign that other countries are catching up or Canada isn't doing a good enough job ensuring the team has the best players and coaches.

[nik-]

They need to stop treating the kids like rockstars and conquering heroes. The cockiness of the Canadian teams the last few years has been pretty high. They act like they were members of the teams that won 5 in a row.