Omar Bakri Mohammed spoke from Beirut and shockingly said "Under Islam this can be justified, he was not targeting civilians, he was taking on a military man in an operation. To people around here (in the Middle East) he is a hero."
This type of thing does not help with people's perception that Islam is a violent religion.
Has anyone got links to prominent members of the Muslim faith speaking out against the attack?
Sorry there has been:
Quote:
A statement from the Muslim Council of Britain condemned the slaughter of the soldier by two men – both believed to be Christian converts to Islam – as “a barbaric act that has no basis in Islam and which we condemn unreservedly.”
Abdullah al Andalusi, a spokesman for the Muslim Debate Initiative, which brings together Islamic scholars and researchers in the U.K., said: “These people claimed they killed the soldier in the name of protecting others from UK foreign policy. But if what they claim is true, they have acted no differently from the crimes they claim they wish to see stopped.”
Westernized Muslim groups denounce this type of behavior because they take their cues from the culture around them rather than the motherland of their religion. For the most part, they are accustomed to western living and certainly don't want to be seen as anything other than peaceful practitioners of a religion. In The EU and America, volatility is such that any effort contrary to this would provoke civil unrest and pretty much guarantee everyone a bad time.
There are good and peaceful practitioners of Islam everywhere, and no one should be quick to call anyone out based on their spirituality. However, at the Mecca of this religion (see what I did there?) are some pretty barbaric customs and attitudes. These are not merely radical ideologies of a religion. Disgusting attitudes towards women, stonings, rape, honour killings... Fatwas against artists for merely expressing themselves (Salmon Rushdie, Kurt Westergaard, Southpark). That is some Butthurt Bullsh, and certainly not a radical thing unless you consider radical to be straight out of the horses mouth.
If you think it is just the radicals who practice barbaric behaviors, then you probably think that the peaceful Muslims you know living in Canada are the norm, and that there are these 'radicals' that pop up on the news every so often in some other land... you know, where the radicals live.
It is not radical behavior, they are tenants at the heart of a religion. Omar Bakri pretty much summed that up.
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what a completely bizarre act of violence. Then to ramble on waiting on the police to come not giving a rats az that they will be gunned down.
I listened to some interviews posted on youtube in which witnesses said the poor guy was not just hacked to pieces but also was decapitated.
Just awful.
Strange how a few people just went about their business walking past the lunatic with a meat clever and a a large knife.
From The Guardian live feed. Solidarity amongst neighbours.
Quote:
12.59pm BST Peter Walker has been to Macey House in Greenwich, south-east London, where a flat was raided by police yesterday and has been linked by locals to the second of the two suspected Woolwich attackers, where Michael Adebowale, 22, is registered as a voter. He reports:
The flat is still the focus of apparently significant forensic examination, with staff in full plastic body-suits entering and leaving the top-floor property in numbers. A uniformed officer remains outside.
Neighbours said that at about 8.45am police were seen removing about four big, full, laundry-type bags, presumably items for examination.
The media fuss on a small block of flats is taking its toll. One resident has been telling reporters how he felt he was followed by two men resembling the suspects some time ago while wearing camouflage trousers, and now reasons they might have been targeting him, thinking him a soldier.
I watched as the man - arguably on the old side for a soldier - accompanied by a reporter and photographer from a tabloid paper, returned to his flat to change into said trousers so he could have his photograph taken outside.
I asked a couple of other locals what they thought of the man's story. "Complete bollocks," said one.
what a completely bizarre act of violence. Then to ramble on waiting on the police to come not giving a rats az that they will be gunned down.
I listened to some interviews posted on youtube in which witnesses said the poor guy was not just hacked to pieces but also was decapitated.
Just awful.
Strange how a few people just went about their business walking past the lunatic with a meat clever and a a large knife.
I'm also a little shocked by the observers. You'd think if they weren't going to stop, they'd run away.
I'm not quick to blame things on the media, but....I wonder if it's the media.
Not just the traditaional media, but sources like youtube, etc.. We have become so habitualized to sit in our armchairs and watch, that when these things happen in real life, it's just another youtube clip.
Westernized Muslim groups denounce this type of behavior because they take their cues from the culture around them rather than the motherland of their religion. For the most part, they are accustomed to western living and certainly don't want to be seen as anything other than peaceful practitioners of a religion.
Um, no. Most Western Muslims denounce terrorism because the Quran itself prohibits terrorism against innocent people.
Quran (60:8-9) Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - forbids that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers.
Um, no. Most Western Muslims denounce terrorism because the Quran itself prohibits terrorism against innocent people.
Quran (60:8-9) Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - forbids that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers.
Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."
So it's really a question of how you define words like "persecution" and "them". Is denying Sharia law persectution? Is allowing freedom of speech against muslim (and all religions) persecution? Does "them" include random people on the street? Canada has troops in Afghanistan, is every Canadian thereby a target?
To say islam forbids terrorism is just as ridiculous as saying it promotes it. It, like all religions, is an ideology that can be twisted to promote either peace or war. This is why we need to live in a country with the rule of law. Religious officials should not replace elected ones.
Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."
So it's really a question of how you define words like "persecution" and "them". Is denying Sharia law persectution? Is allowing freedom of speech against muslim (and all religions) persecution? Does "them" include random people on the street? Canada has troops in Afghanistan, is every Canadian thereby a target?
To say islam forbids terrorism is just as ridiculous as saying it promotes it. It, like all religions, is an ideology that can be twisted to promote either peace or war. This is why we need to live in a country with the rule of law. Religious officials should not replace elected ones.
The verse RIGHT BEFORE the verses you quoted; Quran (2:190) "Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors" The verses you quoted are a continuation of this verse and are not stand alone verses, it says you are only allowed to fight those who fight you, i.e. if someone attacks you first ,not anyone who is not Muslim and even when you fight you are to not transgress(no indiscriminate slaughter). That's why it's important to ask someone who is familiar with the Quran and to actually read the verses before and after any verse quoted.
The verse RIGHT BEFORE the verses you quoted; Quran (2:190) "Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors" The verses you quoted are a continuation of this verse and are not stand alone verses, it says you are only allowed to fight those who fight you, i.e. if someone attacks you first ,not anyone who is not Muslim and even when you fight you are to not transgress(no indiscriminate slaughter). That's why it's important to ask someone who is familiar with the Quran and to actually read the verses before and after any verse quoted.
I'm not arguing with that.
Attack first could mean many things. In this case since the UK had attacked Afghanistan, that, these guys felt they were justified hacking to death a travel British soldier, then attacking the police officers who tried to stop them.
I honestly think that most of these terrorists don't even consider what the Quran says before carrying out their acts. The role of religion as a motivator has been overhyped. These idiots go after innocent people for the same reason as some Americans targeted minorities after 9/11, they think their community is under attack and feel they have to lash out at anyone from the "other side".
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Thank you for everything CP. Good memories and thankful for everything that has been done to help me out. I will no longer take part on these boards. Take care, Go Flames Go.
What this situation needs is an Uncle Ruslan. IMO he did lots for the image of Muslims in the aftermath of the Boston bombings when he said Islam had nothing to do with the bombings, his nephews were just losers.
Personally, I find it unconvincing when a bunch of WASP's on a hockey forum make posts about Islam being the religion of peace, and don't paint all Muslims with the same brush. But show me a pissed off relative/neighbour/Imam denouncing the violence and the perpetrators, and I buy it.
A really bizarre twist to this story, a childhood friend of the suspect claims MI5 recruited Adebolajo. Would he be making this up? This is entirely possible, but I doubt MI5 would ever admit to anything.
