Fatal Cleaver Attack on soldier in London Caught on Camera NSFW

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by fotze

I thought these guys were born in England.

Those ones would have found a way into jail with whatever anti-establishment group du jour they could find. Usually those guys converted to Islam about 3 days before they go on their murderous rampages.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

. Usually those guys converted to Islam about 3 days before they go on their murderous rampages.

Expand please?

[scottish_flame]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Those ones would have found a way into jail with whatever anti-establishment group du jour they could find. Usually those guys converted to Islam about 3 days before they go on their murderous rampages.

That's not exactly true is it?

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Lets stop and think of why all of these terrorists lately seem to be mostly muslim...

Maybe that it's the majority of wars going on in the world right now are in muslim nations?

You get uneducated, disenfranchised people with no job or organization to provide purpose in their life, and you accidentally kill a bunch of innocent people in front of them.

Canadian/American/British bombs and bullets have taken out many innocent people during these missions, and destroyed many people's homes and places of work, taking away their livelyhood.

Then they get pissed off, have nothing to lose, and look for something that is the nearest facimile of the people they are trying to get back at, and you have terrorist acts.

Is it really that unfathomable? Throw a decades long war on Canadian soil and you'll have a nice crop of Christian terrorists.

Can't thank you enough for this. This is exactly it.

Just to shed some light on this, the main idea behind killing in Islam is basically fighting against your oppressor. Yes, Islam is a religion of peace, but it's also not a religion that teaches you to sit back and accept a foreign force coming in and murdering your people. I think whether you're Muslim, Christian or Athiest, we can all agree that fighting back is the right thing to do when your land is invaded.

Where we get terrorism, however, is when someone messes with a Muslim's head and tells them that the civilians of the countries that are at war with them are the same as the soldiers that invaded them. That's wrong and ignorant.

Edit: To add to this, I think the main reason why 99% of terrorists are Muslims is because that's the way the media and politicians define it. You get a white/black guy shoot up a school in Connecticut or a movie theatre in Colorado and they're called criminals. You get a bunch of Muslims detonating a bunch of bombs in Boston and they're called terrorists. The end results of all those incidents is the same and are all caused by mental instability along with some effed up ideologies.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Frankly I couldn't care less what you find offensive. You're a bigot and not surprising you're from Sydney. That place has bigotry and racism in their culture.

I hope you were being ironic.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by PIMking

I would only hope they die soon, but a rather slow painful death. No need for the great people of England to have to pay for them to eat and stay in a climate controlled room.


That is unless England only feeds them ham sandwiches for every meal

And to play the devil's advocate for a moment, what is fitting punishment for the tiny number of American soldiers who have run amok and killed innocents in Iraq, Afghanistan and other countries?

[undercoverbrother]

Serious question, does Islam have a position within the religion on par with the pope or the archbishop of canterbury?

In short is there a recognized international head of Islam?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

And to play the devil's advocate for a moment, what is fitting punishment for the tiny number of American soldiers who have run amok and killed innocents in Iraq, Afghanistan and other countries?

Intentionally or unintentionally?

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Serious question, does Islam have a position within the religion on par with the pope or the archbishop of canterbury?

In short is there a recognized international head of Islam?

Nope... that's the whole point of Islam. Your religion is between you and God, you don't need a mediator. Your interpretation of the Quran is as valid as the next guy's, because that's just how you understand it. There are scholars and Imams that can guide you, but if you don't agree with them, then that's your prerogative and there's nothing "un-muslim" about that.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Nope... that's the whole point of Islam. Your religion is between you and God, you don't need a mediator. Your interpretation of the Quran is as valid as the next guy's, because that's just how you understand it. There are scholars and Imams that can guide you, but if you don't agree with them, then that's your prerogative and there's nothing "un-muslim" about that.

Totally, off topic, but does that mean you can pick and choose what parts of Islam you like and disregard those you don't or is there a set of "rules" that at minimum must be observed to call yourself a Muslim?

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I suppose a question that should be answered is are the number of Muslim 'extremists' rising or dropping?

To claim that someone is a bigot because they are associating acts of terrorism with Muslims is not genuine. The terrorists are (in my opinion) pretty open with the fact they are Muslim first and foremost. This is not something Scottish_flame is imagining, we all see it and read about it. I just finished watching a show on CBC about the struggle some Mosques have to get extremism out of their youth members, this is truly a battle.

To put the blame on every Muslim person is a different story. I do though believe that the solution to the extremists must be Muslim moderates.

Of course non Muslim terrorists are mentioned in this thread, but I don't think there is any state or nation that sanctions that type of terrorism. In fact, world leaders, in any country, quickly condemn other sources of terrorism. I am unaware of churches that promote terrorism, and if there are, they would quickly be shut down or jailed.

I suspect, like Harper's government, you don't commit sociology but it's a fair question to ask "If Islamic extremism is on the rise, what are it's causes?"

Foreign armies are present in several Muslim countries. Do you suppose that could be used by bad folks to cause resentment and foster extremism?

What about US and UK foreign policy in general?

There is never a shortage of evil people attempting to influence or control the poor, the uneducated and the weak minded. That is true across all cultures and all religions.

None of this happens in a vacuum.

[scottish_flame]

Iif they are taking liberties and intentionally killing civilians on the street they should face criminal charges

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

I suspect, like Harper's government, you don't commit sociology but it's a fair question to ask "If Islamic extremism is on the rise, what are it's causes?"

Foreign armies are present in several Muslim countries. Do you suppose that could be used by bad folks to cause resentment and foster extremism?

What about US and UK foreign policy in general?

There is never a shortage of evil people attempting to influence or control the poor, the uneducated and the weak minded. That is true across all cultures and all religions.

None of this happens in a vacuum.

Let's not forget the US does a lot of good in a lot of countries:

http://foreignassistance.gov/CountryIntro.aspx

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Let's not forget the US does a lot of good in a lot of countries:

http://foreignassistance.gov/CountryIntro.aspx

Never said they didn't.

Answer the questions.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Totally, off topic, but does that mean you can pick and choose what parts of Islam you like and disregard those you don't or is there a set of "rules" that at minimum must be observed to call yourself a Muslim?

Not necessarily pick and chose, although a lot of Muslims do that which is technically wrong. However, if two people read the exact same book, they'll have different variations of what they understood from it, what was important, what wasn't too important, etc. Also some Muslims put a lot of weight on the different Hadiths (Mohammed's dialogues) where as some Muslims just take the Quran as the be all end all guidance of your life and don't pay much attention to the Hadiths.

[scottish_flame]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

I suspect, like Harper's government, you don't commit sociology but it's a fair question to ask "If Islamic extremism is on the rise, what are it's causes?"

Foreign armies are present in several Muslim countries. Do you suppose that could be used by bad folks to cause resentment and foster extremism?

What about US and UK foreign policy in general?

There is never a shortage of evil people attempting to influence or control the poor, the uneducated and the weak minded. That is true across all cultures and all religions.

None of this happens in a vacuum.

Foreign armies are in a lot of these countries as part of the un because there is civil unrest in The Middle East.
Do you think that is what's causing the problems?

[scottish_flame]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22644857

Soldier has been named. 25 years old with a 2 year old son

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Never said they didn't.

Answer the questions.

Originally Posted by longsuffering

I suspect, like Harper's government, you don't commit sociology but it's a fair question to ask "If Islamic extremism is on the rise, what are it's causes?"

Foreign armies are present in several Muslim countries. Do you suppose that could be used by bad folks to cause resentment and foster extremism?

What about US and UK foreign policy in general?

There is never a shortage of evil people attempting to influence or control the poor, the uneducated and the weak minded. That is true across all cultures and all religions.

None of this happens in a vacuum.

1. Sure, it could be used, but as mentioned there have been "western" armies in a number of Muslim countries for a number of years, and that didn't cause issues.
2. US/UK foreign policy, not an expert. The point of my post was that their policies have good sides as well. The are a muslim countries that get aid from the US.

[CaptainCrunch]

I think that we tend to forget that Radical Islam is just as much a political movement as it is a facist based religious movement.

And radical Islamists were blowing up planes and killing people long before the Gulf Wars, what's accelerated the movement is American and British involvement in the middle east.

But lets be honest, Osama Bin Laden was willing to sacrifice Afghanistan and his allies there for a political aim and not a religious aim. Remember that the American's were invited into the holy land's and Kuwait by the governments there, they didn't invade.

The American's in my mind were justified to go into Afghanistan after 9/11 since Afghanistan was at the time the heart land of the Al Queda movement before it moved more firmly into Pakistan, however the American's thought they could buy an ally in Pakistan (The enemy of my enemy is my friend) and contain Al Queda there.

In terms of Iraq, it was a stupid war, however Iraq at the time really was not considered to be a hard core Muslim nation, so the thinking was probably that the radical Islamics would not rush into that battlefield, it was a massive mis-calculation.

But the war of the radical sects of Islam sprang out when the relgion split into its various segments, and the war on America really started with the rhetoric of Khomeni in Iran after their takeover, btw another blunder by American Intelligence (Don't worry Mr President, Khomeni is devoutly religious and practically a saint, we can work with them)

There is truth to a large percentage of terrorist acts in the world being perpetrated by Islam, however it is radical islam based on the political aims of a powerful few who take advantage of the il educated, the stupid, the gulliable, the desparate and the evil.

However radical Islam is not a problem that can be well and truly solved by the West, that problem has to be solved by the Islamic community and the Islamic governments who now also find themselves at war with the radicals.

[_Q_]

^^ Yeah and the unfortunate thing is, one of the most radical Islamic countries is a US ally and has seemingly endless amounts of money to fund radicalism (Saudi Arabia).