Pedobear defects to Iran

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Locke

Well, looking at wikipedia, Iran has a population of about 77.5 million people. Assuming thats accurate and the 850,000 'child bride figure' is factual, this works out to about 1% of the Iranian population.

So, a fairly insignificant outlier. I find it odd that any government would find it sensible to make policy that applies to such an insignificant number of people.

Yeah, nobody would notice 350,000 child brides in Canada. No one would think that would be worth commenting on.

I can see why there are 14.5 million child brides every year throughout the world.

Pretty insignificant in a global population of 7 billion.

Definitely a problem worth ignoring in deference to the more important job of preservation of cultural idenity.

Yipes!!!

Cowperson

[Devils'Advocate]

*sigh*

This discussion is ridiculous.

Look... everyone can agree that:
- 1 underage bride is 1 too many
- not all Muslims follow their religious doctrine to the the letter; there are moderate Muslims

So far we've seen suggestions of two things:
- the number of child brides is not significant, so we should just let it slide in deference to respecting the Iranian's ability to sort this out within their culture
- the number of child brides is significant, so we should wipe their culture out

I'm not sure what "culture" entails. I'm hoping it doesn't mean to eliminate all Muslims. But I can't dismiss it since I have seen plenty of people on the Internet suggest just that.

In any case, I think we need to find something in between the two extremes. I'm not for dropping some nukes on Iran, nor am I for ignoring the human rights abuses within. There are other options between nukes and ignore and that's what we should be discussing here rather than running between the two high grounds of "defending children" and "protecting culture" and claiming your hill is higher than the other.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

*sigh*

This discussion is ridiculous.

Look... everyone can agree that:
- 1 underage bride is 1 too many
- not all Muslims follow their religious doctrine to the the letter; there are moderate Muslims

So far we've seen suggestions of two things:
- the number of child brides is not significant, so we should just let it slide in deference to respecting the Iranian's ability to sort this out within their culture
- the number of child brides is significant, so we should wipe their culture out

I'm not sure what "culture" entails. I'm hoping it doesn't mean to eliminate all Muslims. But I can't dismiss it since I have seen plenty of people on the Internet suggest just that.

In any case, I think we need to find something in between the two extremes. I'm not for dropping some nukes on Iran, nor am I for ignoring the human rights abuses within. There are other options between nukes and ignore and that's what we should be discussing here rather than running between the two high grounds of "defending children" and "protecting culture" and claiming your hill is higher than the other.

I don't think Italian culture died just because they gave up on The Inquisition.

These are ancient, long-lived cultures that nevertheless have some growing up to do. That's judgemental but, in the case of the topic at hand, its the truth of it.

Doesn't mean Islam has to die as a whole.

It would be something different and probably better. Again, judgemental but not out of line with bringing Islam forward into the modern world.

Cowperson

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

I don't think Italian culture died just because they gave up on The Inquisition.

These are ancient, long-lived cultures that nevertheless have some growing up to do. That's judgemental but, in the case of the topic at hand, its the truth of it.

Doesn't mean Islam has to die as a whole.

It would be something different and probably better. Again, judgemental but not out of line with bringing Islam forward into the modern world.

Cowperson

The heartbreaking thing is, that Islam was something better, prior to the Inquisition, the Middle East (and the Islamic cultures therein) was/were the absolute apex of mathematics and culture in that era.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

The heartbreaking thing is, that Islam was something better, prior to the Inquisition, the Middle East (and the Islamic cultures therein) was/were the absolute apex of mathematics and culture in that era.

Unfortunately that might be a part of the problem though.

A lot of the times you get hard core Muslims pointing to Islam's heyday saying "hey if we go back to that, we will once again be the apex of mathematics, science, culture, etc." What they don't realize is Islam was the most successful back then because it was the most liberal religion around. Muslims were allowed to divorce, women owned property and were guaranteed more rights than their Christian counterparts. It seems as though, the rest of the world moved forward, but in some cases, Muslims moved backward.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Aren't you Jewish? The Torah states the age for Jewish women to be married is 12 so I'm curious to what you think about that and the child marriages that happen in your religion and culture.

Good question, here is my answer:

The Torah was written several thousand years ago by a bunch of dudes smoking grass or other drugs in the middle of some strange place. If anyone (Jewish) takes the literal word, they are in my opinion, idiots, in particular issues like rape. I doubt you will find any group of Jews marrying girls that are 12, but like they say, there are idiots everywhere.

The good news for me (being Jewish), I can say this freely and I won't be killed. The VAST majority of jews in every country agree with me as well.

I doubt there were many religions that valued women the same way Judaism did for the past 2,000+ years.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Well considering their whole religion is based around Isaac marrying a girl who was said to be 3 years old I'd say the religions are pretty similar so I wanted to know whether he was also disgusted by that in his religion or would he only comment on the muslims doing the wrong thing?

And I agree, it is pretty disgusting on both ends. It rarely happens in Iran as well and the lunatics in Iran making it law or whatever won't change that.

LOL at the 3 year old comment. What a foolish thing to post. There is debate as to what age really meant in the old testament because the world it was written in included people living into the hundreds and assorted giants etc.

The difference is Jews do not allow this and what Iran is preaching does allow it. Try not to throw Jews under the bus with the rest please.

[Nage Waza]

One serious point...the term used earlier was to destroy some culture or aspect of a culture or whatever, and that is how I understood the comment. I don't think a poster here wants to kill every Muslim nor did I read a post like that, and anyone who thinks a poster meant that is a fool.

The Ayatollah is the one calling the shots, the criticism clearly should be pointed at him, yet those supporters of the ideology should be criticized as well.

It was amazing how quickly Jews got thrown under that same brush even when they do not practice organized pedophilia.

[killer_carlson]

Id like to hear from moderate muslims about what steps they are taking to stop this.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Id like to hear from moderate muslims about what steps they are taking to stop this.

You're joking, right??

[killer_carlson]

No, not at all.

At a certain point there has to be a push back from the main stream in any culture to deal with the radicals. Id like to see what it is on this issue. Seriously.

[Vulcan]

It isn't that we don't have some of this crap going on in Canada and Canadian laws seem to condone it.

Hurricane, Utah -- Craig Chatwin said goodbye to his sister Esther Ruth shortly after her 13th birthday last year.

She was getting married.

"She was just a kid and was assigned to marry someone in Canada," said Chatwin, a former member of the polygamous Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Chatwin, 28, said Esther Ruth was the last of seven sisters from Colorado City, Ariz. to be assigned husbands at the Bountiful polygamous commune in Lister, B.C.

By Frank Stirk
christianweek.org
Originally published March 5, 2002

VICTORIA, BC—The British Columbia government will continue a decade-old policy of not prosecuting polygamists, at least until the law forbidding multiple marriages has been reworded. An internal review completed last month re-affirmed the stance taken by the previous NDP administration that the statute—Section 239 of the Criminal Code—violates Charter protections of freedom of religion. "Faced with these legal opinions we will be seeking an amendment to the Criminal Code," Attorney-General Geoff Plant told Vancouver's The Province.

http://childbrides.org/canada.html

and Killer, what are you doing to stop this?

[killer_carlson]

What am i doing?
Expressing disgust and outrage over radical religious justifications for pedophilia.

And to be clear, we do not have state sanctioned child rape in Canada. the issue not being prosecuted in bountiful is polygamy. As far as i know, pedophilia is still a crime prosecuted in BC. POlygamy and pedophelia are different issues.

Stop deflecting the issue. What are moderate muslims doing to prevent sharia law and its victimization of women and children?

Are there public critiques from moderate muslim organizations? If not, why not?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

The heartbreaking thing is, that Islam was something better, prior to the Inquisition, the Middle East (and the Islamic cultures therein) was/were the absolute apex of mathematics and culture in that era.

Do you mean the Reconquista?

And yes, Islam peaked 800 years ago, unfortunately too many madrasas only teach their interpretation of the Quran and not the Sciene and Mathematics.

[JimmytheT]

Persian culture has long standing traditions that go back to antiquity that are definately worth preserving. it is the extremeist muslim "culture" that has been forced upon the Persian people by the Mullahs after the 79 revolution that needs to be marginalized.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

What am i doing?
Expressing disgust and outrage over radical religious justifications for pedophilia.

And to be clear, we do not have state sanctioned child rape in Canada. the issue not being prosecuted in bountiful is polygamy. As far as i know, pedophilia is still a crime prosecuted in BC. POlygamy and pedophelia are different issues.

Stop deflecting the issue. What are moderate muslims doing to prevent sharia law and its victimization of women and children?

Are there public critiques from moderate muslim organizations? If not, why not?

The issue if you've followed along is also child brides. What I'm saying is look in our own backyard first for problems, we'll have a much better chance of fixing them than in some far off country that we don't even have diplomatic relations with. Sure what's going on in Iran is disgusting and that's not their only problem but it probably requires an overthrow of the government to evoke change.

[killer_carlson]

So you are saying that there are no moderate muslims in iran?

Or is it that moderate muslims outside of iran have no influence?

Or that canadians should be intolerant of shariah law, including within Canada's borders?

Or all of it?

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Id like to hear from moderate muslims about what steps they are taking to stop this.

This I love. It's like me as a Muslim demanding all secular people to show me what steps they are taking to prevent a war like the Iraq war since the aggressor, America, is a secular country and the war killed hundreds of thousands of people.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Id like to hear from moderate muslims about what steps they are taking to stop this.

I'm doing nothing, as I should.

It's not like child rape is a prevalent problem in Islam..... unbelievable dude.

If I had a Muslim buddy tell me he wants to marry a 12 year old, I would call the police on him. As with if I had a Jewish, Christian, Atheist, Buddhist, etc friend wanting to do the same thing.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

This I love. It's like me as a Muslim demanding all secular people to show me what steps they are taking to prevent a war like the Iraq war since the aggressor, America, is a secular country and the war killed hundreds of thousands of people.

Agreed. Ignorant and closed minded.

Here's some starting material:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswee...e-jihadis.html

www.wral.com/news/video/11893511


Now. If you could be jailed out killed for disagreeing with a law, would you speak up?