Star Trek 2 (XII) (Now with spoilers)

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by KTrain

I saw it as well and it is easily the best Star Trek movie.

You're right, it was essentially a remake the best Star Trek movie.

[Yeah_Baby]

JJTrek just doesn't have any emotional depth to it

[St. Pats]

This one just wasn't as good as the first reboot. I found the story to be underdeveloped. It was just too matter of fact. There was plently of good action but no change of pace to make it seem more dramatic. The interaction between the characters was not as good. Bones in particular seemed left out. Sort of all sacrificed to jam in more action scenes is how it seemed to me.

I found it just hmmm or meh.

[KTrain]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

You're right, it was essentially a remake the best Star Trek movie.

No, this was better than Wrath of Khan.

But then again, I've always enjoyed Undiscovered Country more than Wrath. Khan has always looked ridiculous to me. But that's a product of the 60s and 80s costumes/hair.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by KTrain

No, this was better than Wraith of Khan.

But then again, I've always enjoyed Undiscovered Country more than Wraith. Khan has always looked ridiculous to me. But that's a product of the 60s and 80s costumes/hair.

I would take Wrath of Khan over the current version easily. It was also the rare movie where the protagonist and Antagonist never meet face to face.

If you can get by the 80's uber mullets the acting in the original WOK was just far better. Montabalm was the perfect Captain Ahab chasing his white whale. Shatner for the most part put away a lot of his cheese tendencies for this movie. Kirstie Alley was excellent in her role and it showed as she was replaced in the next movie by a not near as good Robin Curtis.

You really gained some sympathy for Khan as a former strong leader who lead his people to hell for the simplest of reasons, which was revenge.

To me there was just a feeling of powerful emotion in the ST2 movie that I didn't feel in the new one.

[KTrain]

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Wrath. There were a lot of great, emotional moments. I think a lot of the Khan hate in the new movie is because the actor/character is loved so much from the show and the movie. But Wrath had just as many plot holes as Into Darkness. There was also a lot of overacting from Montabalm and Shatner.

As a Star Trek fan I know Khan is suposed to be the pinnacle of the films but it's 5th for me.

1. Into Darkness
2. First Contact
3. Undiscovered Country
4. Star Trek (2009)
5. Wrath of Khan

[photon]

I thought I was alone in liking the Undiscovered Country!

[jammies]

They must have had warp One Billion to get from the Klingon neutral zone to just beside the Moon in about 2 minutes of real-time.

[dammage79]

Undiscovered Country was one of my favorites as well.

[troutman]

Warp Drive:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warp_drive

Exact velocities were only given in the Voyager episode "The 37's" where Tom Paris describes Voyager's velocity at warp factor 9.9 (under the new warp table formula) as being about 4 billion miles per second, which would be about 21,500 times the speed of light (although Voyager cannot maintain this velocity for very long). Voyager was about 70,000 light-years away from home. Simple calculation reveals that it would take "just" about 3.3 years to travel such distance.

[CaptainCrunch]

Undiscovered Coutry was a great movie, and continued the curse of the odd numbered movies. Christopher Plumber was an amazing Klingon, they finally adressed the inevitable end or retirement of the original enterprise crew as well. The movie chugged a lot during the prison scene.

In terms of what liked and didn't like

Star Trek TMP - A movie that was incredibly smart, but incredibly dull. The plot line was very good with man having to deal with his actions in the Universe, we'd see that again later on. The pacing was very slow with a lot of really long shots out the view screen. The interaction between the crew wasn't really there, especially between Bones and Spoke. Persia Khombata (sp?) was gorgeous but couldn't act. There wasn't enough actual action. Exposed us to the new Klingons. I loved the end line when Sulu asks for a course and Kirk waves his hand and says "Out there, that away, and then sinks back into his chair"

Star Trek 2 TWOK - probably the best villain in a returning Khan hell bent for vengeance over the loss of his wife. Khan and Shatner really chewed up the scenery. We also saw the return of the informality between crew members which made the original show great. The death scene for Spock was a shocker and kirk desperately trying to touch his friend through the glass was awesomely well done. Khan line" He tasks me. He tasks me and I shall have him! I'll chase him 'round the moons of Nibia and 'round the Antares Maelstrom and 'round Perdition's flames before I give him up!"

Star Trek 3 The search for Spock.- Wasn't a great movie by any stretch. Christopher Lloyd and Dan from Night Court chewed up the scenery as Klingons. The moment when Kirk's son is killed and Kirk falls back muttering "You killed my son", it set the stage for Star Trek 6. It was like a finale when the Enterprise blew up and spiraled into Flame with Kirk watching from the surface.

Star Trek 4 - The Voyage home - Very strong movie that focused on the crew, and had some great humor in it. The whole fish out of water scenario played out incredibly well, and all of the cast members shared screen time. Checkov was the unintentional star (Can you tell me where they keep the nuclear wessels". A bit of a repeat of the first movie with the probe returning and creating a consequence for man's previous history.

Star Trek 5 - The final frontier. A terrible movie where the main characters basically gave up their dignity for humor. Spock gets brain washed, McCoy murders his father, Uhura does the fan dance 20 years too late. Scotty bangs his head on a bulk head knocking himself out. The villian was incredibly weak, and somehow they made a Klingon boring. The premise was terrible and Kirk was overly heroic. The only good scene was really the end camping scene. But it had one great line "Excuse me, what does God need with a starship?"

Star Trek 6 - The undiscovered country - Great movie and even numbered. The cast has been allowed to grey out and they are looking forward to retirement after one last mission. Kirk shows his hatred of the Klingons. Spock uses the Vulcan proverb "Only Nixon could go to China" The guest actors were exceptional, from Plumber to Warner to Kim Catrell. The mind rape scene by Spock was out of character. Plumber gleefully yelling Shakespear while blasting the enterprise. Sulu finally gets his own ship. "Cry Havoc and let loose the dogs of way"

Star Trek TNG Generations - Not a great movie with what I would consider to be a bad plotline. The only thing that made it watchable was Malcolm McDowell who is a great villian in everything that he does and called Luke Skywalker an a$$hole in Wing Commander. They destroyed the Enterprise in the same way that Hulk Hogan destroyed Barry Horrowitz.

Star Trek First Contact - Decent movie that went a long way in wrecking the Borg as a scary entity by getting rid of the hive mind and introducing a queen. This was the start of the focus on Picard and Data as most of the other characters had little to do. Patrick Stewart was ok but I just couldn't equate him to Ahab like the movie tried to force us too. Making Cochrane incredibly flawed went against Canon though.

Star Trek Insurrection - Terrible movie with humor around Riker's beard and Worf's zit. The truly cringeworthy Data/Picard sing along, terrible villians an incredibly annoying sub villian. Riker flying and fighting the enterprise with a flight controller joy stick. This movie was worse then the Star Wars Christmas special and there was nothing good about it except

Star Trek -Nemesis - This movie should have been burned instead of released, Insurrection was bad, this was worse. Tom Hardy was valient with a bad character (Can I touch your hair,and then rape Troi) Data does the ultimate sacrifice which saddens fans who actually cared about Fat Data at that point, but then gets slapped in the face later when he's resurrected in B4 (Really?). And whoever designs star ships in the future. Why do Transporters always go first, the Ventral shields are thinner then a latex condom, and its a bad idea to put an open Thaloron or whatever radiation generator on the bridge. Terrible brutal movie.

Star Trek reboot - Remarkable for the performances, though the villain and his motivations weren't all that great, they were trying to out Khan Khan. Still wan't a huge fan of Beverly Hills 9021-Kirk. The stranding of Kirk on an ice planet with no weapon was incredibly stupid writing when you have a brig with force fields and all that crap. It was good to see Nimoy playing older spock though.

My order of favorites

Star Trek 2
Star Trek4
Star Trek 6
Into Darkness
First Contact
Star Trek Abrams
Star Trek 3
Star Trek tmp
Star Trek Generations
The 70's cartoon
Klingon Academy video game
Galaxy quest
Star Fleet Academy video game
half a dozenfan based movies
Star Trek the porn parady
Star Trek 5
Insurrection
Nemisis

[WhiteTiger]

I watched the movie this afternoon. Not too bad, as far as action flicks go. I guess I'd have gotten more out of it if I'd seen Wrath of Khan.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Meh.

Less lens flares this time, that was nice.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by Teh_Bandwagoner

Thoroughly entertaining movie from start to end. I am a bit confused about something though now that I've had to think about it. I think I've pieced most of it together except for one thing. I realize there is a spoiler tag on the op title now,11 but I'll cover this in case:

Spoiler!

Why was Khan out and about in the world in the first place? Why not just free his crew and take Marcus on dead on? I didn't quite catch how the falling out between them happened.

Is anyone able to explain this to me? Still scratching my head over this a little bit.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by Teh_Bandwagoner

Is anyone able to explain this to me? Still scratching my head over this a little bit.

Marcus found/de-iced Khan specifically to enlist him to help build the Vengeance. Marcus believes war with the Klingons is inevitable. He needed Khan to build the ship/militarize starfleet. Then Marcus discarded him and covered the tracks of what he had done. What exactly Marcus promised, I'm not sure, but likely the return of his crew.

In revenge, Khan blew up the starfleet archives, where the alteration of the databanks happened.

Something like that.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by Delgar

Marcus found/de-iced Khan specifically to enlist him to help build the Vengeance. Marcus believes war with the Klingons is inevitable. He needed Khan to build the ship/militarize starfleet. Then Marcus discarded him and covered the tracks of what he had done. What exactly Marcus promised, I'm not sure, but likely the return of his crew.

In revenge, Khan blew up the starfleet archives, where the alteration of the databanks happened.

Something like that.

And that's where I get muddled up. How do you "discard" Khan? Did Marcus just drive into the woods, open the door and say "You're free, boy!" and Khan pranced away happily?

Or maybe that really is the explanation. Marcus tried to dump Khan, but then Khan broke free to regroup and attack the facility again? I suppose I could accept that explanation.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Delgar

Marcus found/de-iced Khan specifically to enlist him to help build the Vengeance. Marcus believes war with the Klingons is inevitable. He needed Khan to build the ship/militarize starfleet. Then Marcus discarded him and covered the tracks of what he had done. What exactly Marcus promised, I'm not sure, but likely the return of his crew.

In revenge, Khan blew up the starfleet archives, where the alteration of the databanks happened.

Something like that.

Which is funny, because in Space Seed Khan didn't know anything about Star Ship technology or weapons or tactics, he was a global leader not an engineer.

Even in wrath of Khan he didn't understand star ship operations.

The time line shift wouldn't have changed it.

[KTrain]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Meh.

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by Teh_Bandwagoner

Is anyone able to explain this to me? Still scratching my head over this a little bit.

Khan himself explained it pretty well...

Marcus found the Botany Bay and woke up Khan only. He coerced him into helping design/build the Vengeance and it's weapons by withholding his crew from them and threatening to kill them. Khan eventually attempted to smuggle them out in those special photon torpedoes, but he was discovered and was forced to flee. Assuming that Marcus had murdered his crew, he began his vengeance on Starfleet, which is where the movie begins.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Which is funny, because in Space Seed Khan didn't know anything about Star Ship technology or weapons or tactics, he was a global leader not an engineer.

Even in wrath of Khan he didn't understand star ship operations.

The time line shift wouldn't have changed it.

Is it possible it's another one of Khan's family, an engineer perhaps? They never explicitly said Khan's first name in Into the Darkness (well old Spock did, but he wasn't really involved) There's the age difference too when you think about it.