Flames 2013 Draft Discussion

[Johnny Rotten]

Originally Posted by devo22

didn't they just re-sign Timonen after the lockout? Why would they want to buy him out a couple months later?

Briere would be interesting, but he has an NMC and we already have enough smurfs.

Really, the way I was thinking, the player is somewhat immaterial. Whether the Flames are big or not isn't my focus; it's more of what the Flames could acquire pick-wise by taking a big contract.

Also, could the Flames then buyout the player they traded for?

[indes]

Originally Posted by Johnny Rotten

Really, the way I was thinking, the player is somewhat immaterial. Whether the Flames are big or not isn't my focus; it's more of what the Flames could acquire pick-wise by taking a big contract.

Also, could the Flames then buyout the player they traded for?

No, you can't trade buyouts

[moon]

Originally Posted by Johnny Rotten

Probably been mentioned elsewhere, but Philadelphia appears to be in cap trouble. They could probably buy out a Bryzgalov, Timonen, or Briere but not all three. If the Flames are willing to take one of the three, what pick could they get?

What about the Flames taking one of them and offering a late first for Philly's eleventh overall and a second...or something along those lines? The worse the contract the more the Flames get back?

I doubt Philly is giving up the 11th pick, let alone the 11th and a 2nd.

People are vastly overrating the value of taking one of these so called problem deals back and having cap space available.

The only guys available after buyouts or to take on are guys you wouldn't want on your team.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by indes

No, you can't trade buyouts

Where did you see that? I've looked and haven't seen anything that says one way or the other.

Under the last CBA, there was no limit on compliance buyouts, so it wasn't an issue. There's nothing in the new MOU that specifies a player must have been with a team for a minimum period of time before he can be bought out.

[PlayfulGenius]

Originally Posted by moon

I doubt Philly is giving up the 11th pick, let alone the 11th and a 2nd.

People are vastly overrating the value of taking one of these so called problem deals back and having cap space available.

The only guys available after buyouts or to take on are guys you wouldn't want on your team.

You're contradicting yourself... Either there's value to be had in taking these players OR there's worthwhile players to be gained.

I don't see any contract being worth 11th overall and a 2nd though, I agree wih that.

[moon]

Not sure why there has to be value in taking players on or in guys that are buyouts. Both groups can be bad players and teams can be willing to give basically nothing up to get rid of them.

There isn't a rule that teams can only buyout or deal good players with big contracts.

[dying4acup]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

You're contradicting yourself... Either there's value to be had in taking these players OR there's worthwhile players to be gained.

I don't see any contract being worth 11th overall and a 2nd though, I agree wih that.

Bryzgalov?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

Bryzgalov?

In response to being worth the 11th overall? I doubt it, mostly because the team he plays for has deep pockets. At least compared to the Islanders, who are currently rumoured to be on the market, yet owe DiPietro more money than Bryzgalov. Ilya at the very least is a bad NHL goalie which is more than can be said about AHL goalie Rick. If there's a contract that a team is offering up a 1st+ to get rid of, it's that one. I doubt there would be any takers though.

I think it's all a bit moot as the teams that would maybe willing to take on these bad contracts have bad contracts themselves that could end up being compliance buyouts. I think it's a bit of a pipe dream to believe Calgary, a team that wouldn't retain any of Bouwmeester's salary, would be willing to take on contracts in the 8 digit range for some pick though.

And with Briere, the Flyer's aren't going to give up much of anything to get rid of him as he only has 5M left on his contract. Less than a million a year spread out over 4 years isn't going to be worth a whole lot to the Flyers. And if Briere would waive his NMC I could see some teams willing to risk grabbing a player that's still probably good for 50 points with a salary of only 2M off of waivers or what have you.

[The Original FFIV]

Outside of our top 6 pick, I think we could see some surprises with our other 2 1st round picks, assuming no deals are made with these picks.

Feaster and Weisbrod will see this as an opportunity to re-set the culture of the organization and reading the tea leaves you will see players with a high hockey iq and high compete level. Believe some will be shocked to see the Flames pass over some of the players available who on paper look better than who the actually select. From the brief reading I've done I would not be surprised to see Zach Nastasiuk be one of our first round picks as he embodies what the team is looking for - hockey sense, competitive and decent size. Guys with suspect compete levels like Gauthier and Mantha will be passed over in favor of players like Nastasiuk.

[Commandant]

Chris Bigras a two way defender from Owen Sound comes in at 40

http://lastwordonsports.com/2013/05/...er-profile-40/

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Outside of our top 6 pick, I think we could see some surprises with our other 2 1st round picks, assuming no deals are made with these picks.

Feaster and Weisbrod will see this as an opportunity to re-set the culture of the organization and reading the tea leaves you will see players with a high hockey iq and high compete level. Believe some will be shocked to see the Flames pass over some of the players available who on paper look better than who the actually select. From the brief reading I've done I would not be surprised to see Zach Nastasiuk be one of our first round picks as he embodies what the team is looking for - hockey sense, competitive and decent size. Guys with suspect compete levels like Gauthier and Mantha will be passed over in favor of players like Nastasiuk.

Who would be shocked? This is how the team operated under Darryl Sutter and it's a recipe for failure. I hope for the best but expect the worst with this franchise and wouldn't be shocked if the Blues and Penguins picks are wasted on silly reaches. I'm not going to condemn the Flames for the Jankowski pick but a guy like Maatta would have looked really good in the pipeline and a lot safer of a pick as Jankowski still has high bust potential even a year after the draft.

[PlayfulGenius]

Originally Posted by moon

Not sure why there has to be value in taking players on or in guys that are buyouts. Both groups can be bad players and teams can be willing to give basically nothing up to get rid of them.

There isn't a rule that teams can only buyout or deal good players with big contracts.

If a player on bad deal is one that "you wouldn't want on yur team", as you said, then that'd mean the current team wouldn't want them either, therefore there'd be vie in taking the player off their hands... It can't be both ways.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Outside of our top 6 pick, I think we could see some surprises with our other 2 1st round picks, assuming no deals are made with these picks.

Feaster and Weisbrod will see this as an opportunity to re-set the culture of the organization and reading the tea leaves you will see players with a high hockey iq and high compete level. Believe some will be shocked to see the Flames pass over some of the players available who on paper look better than who the actually select. From the brief reading I've done I would not be surprised to see Zach Nastasiuk be one of our first round picks as he embodies what the team is looking for - hockey sense, competitive and decent size. Guys with suspect compete levels like Gauthier and Mantha will be passed over in favor of players like Nastasiuk.

On the bright side, I see us nabbing Compher & McCoshen type guys because of their USHL roots. I feel Compher is a great fit with the Flames, & he seems to fit the profile of recent Feaster/Weisbrod picks.

If Pulock drops to the St Louis pick & we pass on him I will be ultra-pissed.

[moon]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

If a player on bad deal is one that "you wouldn't want on yur team", as you said, then that'd mean the current team wouldn't want them either, therefore there'd be vie in taking the player off their hands... It can't be both ways.

Sure they want to get rid of the guy but that doesn't mean they are giving up anything of value to do so.

[PlayfulGenius]

Originally Posted by moon

Sure they want to get rid of the guy but that doesn't mean they are giving up anything of value to do so.

Well then they don't really want to get rid of him. If you're not willing to pay X amount for something, it's because you value it less than X...pretty simple.

I think there will be some deals made where futures are attained in exchange for the unloading of contracts...but I think it'll be players of Tanguay's ilk (not Tanguay himself, however, as the Flames don't have cap issues) are traded for much less than what their normal market value would be...so teams that have cap space will potentially get some decent vets for very cheap.

[moon]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

Well then they don't really want to get rid of him. If you're not willing to pay X amount for something, it's because you value it less than X...pretty simple.

I think there will be some deals made where futures are attained in exchange for the unloading of contracts...but I think it'll be players of Tanguay's I'll (not Tanguay himself, however, as the Flames don't have cap issues) are traded for much less than what there normal market value would be...so teams that have cap space will potentially get some decent vets for very cheap.

I think the futures will be pretty weak and Tanguay is still a useful vet so trading for him is to help the team not because of his deal.

Just because the Flyers don't want to give up the 11th pick to get rid if Bryzgslov doesn't mean they don't want to get rid of him.

Teams might be able to get overpaid garbage for nothing but doubtful they are getting any players of actual value for 5 cents on the dollar.

[PlayfulGenius]

Originally Posted by moon

I think the futures will be pretty weak and Tanguay is still a useful vet so trading for him is to help the team not because of his deal.

Just because the Flyers don't want to give up the 11th pick to get rid if Bryzgslov doesn't mean they don't want to get rid of him.

Teams might be able to get overpaid garbage for nothing but doubtful they are getting any players of actual value for 5 cents on the dollar.

Ya, I think it'll be players that would normally cost a 2nd rounder will be available for 4th and 5th rounders, something like that.

Bryz won't be moved along with the 11th pick, that does seem silly... Unless it was for an established #1G on a good contract...or for Kipper and Gio!!!!!

[cral12]

For those interested in draft day sleepers, my colleague E-Mac can't let sleeping dogs lie:

2013 NHL Draft Rankings War Room Top 120 – The Sleepers

[StrykerSteve]

Domi is now officially on my radar.

http://video.flames.nhl.com/videocen...1325&id=250255

[Erick Estrada]

I wonder with the regime change in Colorado if they possibly look at taking McKinnon instead of Jones? Not sure if that would change anything for the Flames as I expect that the Panthers would snap up Jones.