Flames to announce plans to announce arena plans in the... future...

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I actually don't think stadiums is that big of an issue honestly.

Assuming we need 12 stadiums with the following specifications:

1 larger than 70K capacity
2 larger than 60K
9 larger than 40K

We in Canada could potentially have the following:
Vancouver - BC Place - 55K
Edmonton - Commonwealth Stadium - 60K (expandable to 70K+)
Calgary - New Stampeders/MLS stadium - 40K (expandable to 45K)
Regina - New Roughriders Stadium - 33K (expandable to 40K)
Winnipeg - Investors Group Field - 33K (expandable to 40K)
Toronto - Rogers Centre - 54K
BMO Field - 22K (expandable to 40K)
Ottawa - New Frank Claire Stadium - 30K (Expandable to 40K)
Montreal - Olympic Stadium - 66K
Saputo Field - 22K (Expandable to 40K)

That leaves another two locations possibly. So possibly Victoria, Halifax, Moncton? Build smaller stadiums there with temporary seating that can be dismantled later like they're doing in Qatar.

So the issues that I see here are the that assuming you want to hold your finals in Toronto, Rogers Centre is inadequate. They would need to build something huge there for a world cup. That could potentially replace a BMO Field expansion, so you can go with new 80K stadium and Rogers Centre for Toronto.

All other "expansions" could be as simple as adding temporary seating in the end zones.

Even with the stadiums we have today, or proposed today, we can potentially make a World Cup work here in Canada. Who knows what the future holds though.

I could see the World Cup or Summer Olympics being a catalyst for Toronto to get a new 70K+ stadium that would then house an NFL team.

The new stadium in Hamilton would probably also fit the bill.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I actually don't think stadiums is that big of an issue honestly.

Assuming we need 12 stadiums with the following specifications:

1 larger than 70K capacity
2 larger than 60K
9 larger than 40K

We in Canada could potentially have the following:
Vancouver - BC Place - 55K
Edmonton - Commonwealth Stadium - 60K (expandable to 70K+)
Calgary - New Stampeders/MLS stadium - 40K (expandable to 45K)
Regina - New Roughriders Stadium - 33K (expandable to 40K)
Winnipeg - Investors Group Field - 33K (expandable to 40K)
Toronto - Rogers Centre - 54K
BMO Field - 22K (expandable to 40K)
Ottawa - New Frank Claire Stadium - 30K (Expandable to 40K)
Montreal - Olympic Stadium - 66K
Saputo Field - 22K (Expandable to 40K)

That leaves another two locations possibly. So possibly Victoria, Halifax, Moncton? Build smaller stadiums there with temporary seating that can be dismantled later like they're doing in Qatar.

So the issues that I see here are the that assuming you want to hold your finals in Toronto, Rogers Centre is inadequate. They would need to build something huge there for a world cup. That could potentially replace a BMO Field expansion, so you can go with new 80K stadium and Rogers Centre for Toronto.

All other "expansions" could be as simple as adding temporary seating in the end zones.

Even with the stadiums we have today, or proposed today, we can potentially make a World Cup work here in Canada. Who knows what the future holds though.

Not enough big stadia. That many temporary seats would never convince FIFA, nor would proposing to play in Olympic Stadium, or Roger's Centre. Also, only one city is allowed to have two stadia used.

All of the CFL stadia would have to have real grass installed too, which isn't impossible but would certainly add some cost.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by valo403

There's money to be made in a lot of things. If there was so much money to be made in hosting soccer tournaments someone would build a soccer stadium.

Well, things don't always work like that. Sometimes the money gets made by third parties. If the investor who would build the stadium recieved all the money it brings in, it would get built a lot faster than if the revenue goes to hotel owners, bars etc. and thus doesn't get include in the investor's return-on-investment calculation. The government, however, could make things happen through a hotel/bar tax that goes towards funding things that bring in tourists.

[SeeBass]

Why don't we make an arena like Edmonton's new one and line them up to form a ying/yang thing.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by normtwofinger

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but I would like to have an outdoor stadium that could have a concert or music festival without disturbing "the neighbours". Bring in some big name acts. When was the last time McMahon had a big name act?

You don't need a stadium for that. Not one of the major NA music festivals in stadium based.

[You Need a Thneed]

Let's look at this list, and I'll say what would be required to do to make a bid acceptable to FIFA.

Vancouver - BC Place - 55K - likely fine as is - by 2026, might be needing mid life cycle upgrades.
Edmonton - Commonwealth Stadium - 60K (expandable to 70K+) - may need some minor-mid level renos
Calgary - New Stampeders/MLS stadium - 40K (expandable to 45K) 60k -65k
Regina - New Roughriders Stadium - 33K (expandable to 40K) - might be acceptable, is it even possible?
Winnipeg - Investors Group Field - 33K (expandable to 40K) - might be acceptable
Toronto - Rogers Centre - 54K - New 80k+ stadium
BMO Field - 22K (expandable to 40K) - Probobly would need to be a permanent expansion
Ottawa - New Frank Claire Stadium - 30K (Expandable to 40K) - would require building the other side of the stands to match what they are building now. - plus temporary seats to bring capacity to 40k
Montreal - Olympic Stadium - 66K - New 75k to 80k stadium
Saputo Field - 22K (Expandable to 40K) To make this acceptable, would have to be a permanent expansion I think - plus convince FIFA to ignore it's no more than 1 two stadium cities
Hamilton - permanent addition to new Stadium to bring it to the 30-35k range, with temporary seating up to 40k)
Moncton (or somewhere else?) - new 30-35k Stadium with temporary seats to bring it up to 40k.

I think that it what it would take, at MINIMUM, to make a World Cup bid work.

[normtwofinger]

Originally Posted by valo403

You don't need a stadium for that. Not one of the major NA music festivals in stadium based.

I just think that Calgary is missing out on some top bands due to no allowed outdoor venue that is large enough, and the Saddledome ceiling not being able to support heavy rigs. If a new outdoor stadium is being considered, put it somewhere where the noise will not be an issue. You are right about the festivals.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Let's look at this list, and I'll say what would be required to do to make a bid acceptable to FIFA.

Vancouver - BC Place - 55K - likely fine as is - by 2026, might be needing mid life cycle upgrades.
Edmonton - Commonwealth Stadium - 60K (expandable to 70K+) - may need some minor-mid level renos
Calgary - New Stampeders/MLS stadium - 40K (expandable to 45K) 60k -65k
Regina - New Roughriders Stadium - 33K (expandable to 40K) - might be acceptable, is it even possible?
Winnipeg - Investors Group Field - 33K (expandable to 40K) - might be acceptable
Toronto - Rogers Centre - 54K - New 80k+ stadium
BMO Field - 22K (expandable to 40K) - Probobly would need to be a permanent expansion
Ottawa - New Frank Claire Stadium - 30K (Expandable to 40K) - would require building the other side of the stands to match what they are building now. - plus temporary seats to bring capacity to 40k
Montreal - Olympic Stadium - 66K - New 75k to 80k stadium
Saputo Field - 22K (Expandable to 40K) To make this acceptable, would have to be a permanent expansion I think - plus convince FIFA to ignore it's no more than 1 two stadium cities
Hamilton - permanent addition to new Stadium to bring it to the 30-35k range, with temporary seating up to 40k)
Moncton (or somewhere else?) - new 30-35k Stadium with temporary seats to bring it up to 40k.

I think that it what it would take, at MINIMUM, to make a World Cup bid work.

Agreed, and to land the World Cup you'd also have to beat out a bid from the US, who have aggresively pursued a second World Cup multiple times and have much more infrastructure, experience and a far more desirable market to offer. Unless Canada supplements a bid with a few suitcases full of cash it seems like a pipe dream.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

The city of Calgary has a $52m windfall. How do you think they should spend it? Have your say online!

www.calgary.ca/52million

I suppose there's a lot of people here who will write in:
"Give it to the billionaire owners of the Flames, so they can build 1/20th of their new arena/stadium, to help them rake in money faster than they currently do."

Seriously, I cannot believe there are so many people who seriously think that the best possible use of hundreds of millions of dollars in public funds is to build a new arena for a private company, because the line ups for beer and nachos at the current one are too long.

Hmm.
New MRI scanners at every major hospital? Cardiac intervention suites? New STARS helicopters? More surgical staff to cut wait times? Reducing the environmental impact of the tar sands? Diversifying Calgary's economic base?

Not worth it, man, not when we could be paying Murray Edwards hundreds of millions so he can build a building that holds twice as many mini-donut stands.

[dammage79]

I don't pay enough attention to things like this to have an opinion one way or another.

But I do have a question. Is there one new arena that was not aided by government funding that has been built in North America over say the last twenty years?

I was always under the impression that governments collected money off of land use by these arenas.

[TurnedTheCorner]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

The city of Calgary has a $52m windfall. How do you think they should spend it? Have your say online!

www.calgary.ca/52million

I suppose there's a lot of people here who will write in:
"Give it to the billionaire owners of the Flames, so they can build 1/20th of their new arena/stadium, to help them rake in money faster than they currently do."

Thanks for the idea! I just copied-and-pasted your quote and submitted it.

[timun]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I don't pay enough attention to things like this to have an opinion one way or another.

But I do have a question. Is there one new arena that was not aided by government funding that has been built in North America over say the last twenty years?

I was always under the impression that governments collected money off of land use by these arenas.

Air Canada Centre, Rogers Arena, Bell Centre, Scotiabank Place, United Center, Staples Center and Pepsi Center were privately funded.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Two events, possibly three (possibly future World Cup), even just for one sport (soccer). Heck, even the Amway Canadian Championship tournament would be a draw just on the fact that both Edmonton and Vancouver are competing with professional teams.

There is money to be made here, especially when the rest of Canada is moving towards a soccer-friendly environment and soccer is taking off in this country.

You cannot deny this.

You keep saying this. How about a simple 'back of a napkin' calculation from you on exactly how much money is to be made?

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Table 5

There's no way Calgary is setup to host another Olympics at the moment. The Dome is old, the ski-jumps are useless, the Oval is no-longer cutting edge, Olympic plaza is hilariously small potatoes, you need a whole new Olympic village. Most of the venues have the same dillema as McMahon....you would need to spend millions of dollars to renovate them up to par, to the point that it would probably make sense to just stat from scratch. Calgary is no doubt a great location for an Olympics, but there's no way that you could just host one here on the cheap.

One thing that you would definitely want to bring back though is those sweet-ass Sunice Jackets. Everyone needs to be decked out in neon green and hot pink.

Maybe you're too young to remember but Calgary didn't build the facilities and then go out and bid for the Olympics. Calgary was awarded the Olympics and then built the facilities. As another posted stated, it's not a "build it and they will come" scenario.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

MLS standards. Doesn't mean an MLS team will be here within the next 10 years. I would think that NASL will be here first, and Calgary will have the chance to graduate a team to MLS at some point a la the Vancouver Whitecaps. I believe Ottawa Fury FC is also on this general trajectory as well using Frank Clair (although it is a similar venue to McMahon).

Also, I'm not saying a stadium would be complete within 10 years, but I do think ground will be purchased, planned and possibly broke on within a decade.

Whoa. Careful, don't hurt yourself. That's a whole lot of back-pedalling for one post.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

On an interesting note about building a stadium, I came across this article about our very own Saddledome, which sort of contradicts some of the negativity towards the "if you build it, they will come" philosophy:

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...a-39821fa3f0f9

"The fact that this facility was already being built added credibility to (Calgary's) bid and proved to be a positive factor in demonstrating Calgary's commitment to hosting the Games," according to the XV Olympic Winter Games official report.[/B]

Building stadiums that can support big events lend credibility to attracting interest for world-class events. Even in Qatar, the building of the Al-Wakrah and Al-Khor Stadiums were going ahead before even being awarded the 2022 World Cup, but did help lend credibility to their ultimately successful bid.

I don't think the "if you build it, they will come" philosophy is as faulty as some may think it is.

I stand (partially) corrected, however the fact remains that there were several tenants for the building already in place the economics of the project were much more favourable than those of a new stadium.

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I remember they had a metal festival there like 10 years ago, and I could hear Ozzy Osbourne playing McMahon all the way from Kensington. I believe they had Judas Priest there since then, but nothing else.

It was in 2008 and featured Ozzy, Judas Priest, Serj Tankian, and Testament, along with about 6 other bands. It took me an Hour and half to go to the bathroom and get a beer. I missed two bands. That is how useless Mcmahon'sconcourse is. Anything that has more than an under capacity CFL level of attendance renders the entire concourse completely un-functional. And yes it is an embarrassment when you meet people from out of town at said event.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAz0BJ6cB70

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

You keep saying this. How about a simple 'back of a napkin' calculation from you on exactly how much money is to be made?

Not sure. But there is interest in putting a team in Calgary, from both local investors and external ones. As a side note, we should probably be looking at FC Edmonton for any financials on the viability of soccer in Alberta. Rod Proudfoot is in as the new GM, and while the Eddies have not had good financial fortunes due to a few issues (low season ticket sales, lack of viable field with proper seating, unfavorable corporate sponsorship), Proudfoot is the man who turned the Stampeders around in the 1990's. Clarke Field should be getting 3000 extra seats to meet attendance targets for the 2013 season.

Also, the man who built the Edmonton FC club, Joe Petrone, is working full-time in Calgary now to bring an NASL team to the city. Here is a link with an interview with him: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...fessional.html

EDIT: Petrone wants a team in Calgary for the 2014 or 2015 season, and would likely play at McMahon. I think an NASL team is a good measuring stick for how pro soccer would do in that facility, or whether a new one is required that's more suitable.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Whoa. Careful, don't hurt yourself. That's a whole lot of back-pedalling for one post.

Not really. I said there would be a stadium in 10 years for Calgary, and I stick by that. Whether it's been planned or whether its operational in 10 years remains to be seen, but I believe there will be land purchased for the intent of a stadium.

Not sure where the backpeddling is. If it's about clarification, then I've clarified.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by valo403

Agreed, and to land the World Cup you'd also have to beat out a bid from the US, who have aggresively pursued a second World Cup multiple times and have much more infrastructure, experience and a far more desirable market to offer. Unless Canada supplements a bid with a few suitcases full of cash it seems like a pipe dream.

Yup, Canada would still have to beat out a US bid, and lets consider this:

The US would probably have all 12 of their stadia larger than the largest one Canada would offer. Quite literally, the US would have twice as many tickets to sell. The average attendance could probably be 90,000 per game in the US, if they wanted to.