The Light at the End of the Tunnel: 2016 Flames

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

moon's bang on

If you think this is the nadir of the Flames and that we're going to be better next year you should make an appointment for a CT scan.

I don't think it's unfair to suggest that this is the low point. Next year is going to be painful, and the year after that, but the next two years will be about the building up of this club again. This is definitely the low point from a franchise, if not results, perspective.

We're not "trending up" yet, but this is the bottom.

[FlameZilla]

The best & cheapest way to build a winning franchise is through good scouting & successful drafting. Unless we are able to acquire incredibly good young players that will be cornerstone pieces we must keep the picks. Three first rounders in a potentially deep draft could be enough to build a solid foundation. If we happen to be bottom feeders for the next 2 years it could land us a potential superstar in McDavid.

Any money that management is tempted to use on big free agents should instead go towards expanding & improving our scouting department to make the most of the next 2 years of high picks.

Patience & intelligence could get us out of the woods within a couple of years. Unfortunately those 2 traits have not been apparent in the recent history of the franchise.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by nik-

I don't think it's unfair to suggest that this is the low point. Next year is going to be painful, and the year after that, but the next two years will be about the building up of this club again. This is definitely the low point from a franchise, if not results, perspective.

We're not "trending up" yet, but this is the bottom.

That's definitely an optimistic way to look at things, but unfortunately that's just not how it always goes.

There's no guarantee things begin going up - mistakes get made. When Feaster talks about walking aimlessly in the desert, he's talking about a very real risk. One that the organization is now, risking (and it's very necessary).

[Steve Bozek]

I think next year is going to be the bottom for this team.
The Flames were flirting with last place before they traded away their 2 best players for zero immediate return of players with any NHL experience. The players returning in the trades are prospects that are unlikely to make a significant contribution next season. A whole season of aging vets (Camalleri & Tanguay) and young players fresh out of the AHL is not likely to improve on this past season's position in the standings.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

That's definitely an optimistic way to look at things, but unfortunately that's just not how it always goes.

There's no guarantee things begin going up - mistakes get made. When Feaster talks about walking aimlessly in the desert, he's talking about a very real risk. One that the organization is now, risking (and it's very necessary).

Well all that changes is how long this lasts. We traded away our best ever player and our best ever goalie is about to retire. It doesn't get lower than this because those two things combined with poor performance in the standings won't happen again. All it will be now is poor placings in the standings until enough of the moves click.

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Understand now, did not read EE's post. To me the flames will not get top prospects for the Pitt draft pick, nor do i think they will get as good a prospect as a Turris or Hodgson for the Pitt pick. Posters need to temper their expectations on what kind of return the Pitt pick would bring in. I still hope Feaster uses all 3 picks to draft players, but i just can't see that happening from what he has said in past interviews.

Feaster isn't trading any of the first round picks unless it's for a very good young prospect or to move up higher in the draft.

He's already made that crystal clear.

The Flames recognize how important this draft is, people need to stop acting like they are incompetent.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

Feaster isn't trading any of the first round picks unless it's for a very good young prospect or to move up higher in the draft.

He's already made that crystal clear.

The Flames recognize how important this draft is, people need to stop acting like they are incompetent.

I think Feaster would move a first round pick for a solid 22-25 year old player. Not just a prospect or moving up. I am not opposed to it either if he can get a guy like Bergland or Simmonds for the blues or pens pick I am fine with that. Those players are not post apex and would help the organization now and in the future.

Atlanta took advantage of the hawks in 2010 and used their 1st from the devils/Kovy trade to land Buff they also got Ladd in a separate deal but those are 2 core players on the jets. I think the flames are in a market for those type of cap cutting deals

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

Feaster isn't trading any of the first round picks unless it's for a very good young prospect or to move up higher in the draft.

He's already made that crystal clear.

The Flames recognize how important this draft is, people need to stop acting like they are incompetent.

When did he make that clear? I remember he said he would not trade the 6th over all pick unless it was to move up. He mentioned that when he traded JBO and Iggy that those picks could be used in many ways, including trading for a APEX player.

As for the "incompetent" comment, Feasters body of work pretty much shows that is what he is.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I think Feaster would move a first round pick for a solid 22-25 year old player. Not just a prospect or moving up. I am not opposed to it either if he can get a guy like Bergland or Simmonds for the blues or pens pick I am fine with that. Those players are not post apex and would help the organization now and in the future.

Atlanta took advantage of the hawks in 2010 and used their 1st from the devils/Kovy trade to land Buff they also got Ladd in a separate deal but those are 2 core players on the jets. I think the flames are in a market for those type of cap cutting deals

I doubt either team would trade those type of players for the Blues or the Pitt pick. Maybe St.Louis trades Stewart for one of those picks and Philly would trade Matt Read.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

When did he make that clear? I remember he said he would not trade the 6th over all pick unless it was to move up. He mentioned that when he traded JBO and Iggy that those picks could be used in many ways, including trading for a APEX player.

As for the "incompetent" comment, Feasters body of work pretty much shows that is what he is.

I also only recall him referring to the first pick when saying that it would only be traded to move up. I wouldn't put anything past these guys especially if the owners are really looking for the team to make the playoffs as soon as possible. There has been a lot of incompetence by management dating back decades so I tend to look at Flames ownership/management with a glass half empty angle until they start proving to fans that they are truly willing to do things the right way and not just their way.

[bucksmasher]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

Feaster isn't trading any of the first round picks unless it's for a very good young prospect or to move up higher in the draft.

He's already made that crystal clear.

The Flames recognize how important this draft is, people need to stop acting like they are incompetent.

feaster made a few other things "crystal clear" that turned out to be mud soup

[moon]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

The Flames recognize how important this draft is, people need to stop acting like they are incompetent.

Perhaps if they stop acting incompetent people will stop calling them incompetent, but based on their track record I doubt that will happen.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I doubt either team would trade those type of players for the Blues or the Pitt pick. Maybe St.Louis trades Stewart for one of those picks and Philly would trade Matt Read.

I don't see howling Read's 800k co tract helps Pholly out of their cap hell. Simmonds makes $4M per for 6 years starting next season. He might not be the player they want to move but they have to dump cap. Ultimately Simmonds and Bergland were more wishful thinking from my part but if teams want to dump salary and get a 1st from the flames it is going to cost them

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I don't see howling Read's 800k co tract helps Pholly out of their cap hell. Simmonds makes $4M per for 6 years starting next season. He might not be the player they want to move but they have to dump cap. Ultimately Simmonds and Bergland were more wishful thinking from my part but if teams want to dump salary and get a 1st from the flames it is going to cost them

I thought Matt Read was RFA. I had no idea that he would only be making a $1 million for the next season. Now i doubt the Flyers would even want to trade him.

Flyers owner is rich as hell and would probably write a huge check to Bryz or Brierre, before trading Simmonds. Also if Simmonds was for some reason made available, there would be a long list of teams that would pay for him. A big, gritty player that can skate and pot goals is going to be going for a premium for the next couple of years. Look at the end of the year press conferences from teams in our division. Edmonton , Vancouver and Calgary all said the same thing, they want big, gritty players.

[FlameZilla]

Re: all this 'trending up' terminology, is there a consensus on the board that we've hit rock bottom?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

Re: all this 'trending up' terminology, is there a consensus on the board that we've hit rock bottom?

Likely not standings wise, but organizationally, I'd say yes.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

Re: all this 'trending up' terminology, is there a consensus on the board that we've hit rock bottom?

I'm not certain there's a consensus we've reached rocked bottom, but rather that the medium to longer term future (3-5 years) should be better than what we have now. There's also some optimism that Flames Management can pull a rabbit from their hat and have these team competing for a playoff spot, but with a younger roster that should get better with time instead of worse, but as nice as that is to think about, it's not particularly likely to happen.

[CliffFletcher]

The roster opening night 2013-2014 will be worse than the roster that opened this season. And we flirted with a 2nd overall pick until a late-season surge.

Now look at the teams that finished below us (Florida, Colorado, Nashville, Carolina, Tampa) and ask yourself which of those look to be worse next season.

Florida has a much deeper pool of prospects and quality young players than the Flames. Surely a team with Haburdeau, Kulikov, Bjugstad, Howden, Gudbranson, and Markstrom has a brighter future. Now add MacKinnon to the mix. Colorado will add Jones to its stacked collection of talent, and can't possibly have worse coaching next season. Nashville may be treading water. But they also have a goalie who can win them a playoff spot by himself. Tampa has to find a goalie eventually.

On the declining side, Dallas might sink into the bottom five. The Oilers can be counted on to be terrible. Phoenix could easily drop if Tippet leaves.

But realistically, the Flames are a bottom-five team next season. This isn't the bottom yet, folks.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The roster opening night 2013-2014 will be worse than the roster that opened this season. And we flirted with a 2nd overall pick until a late-season surge.

Now look at the teams that finished below us (Florida, Colorado, Nashville, Carolina, Tampa) and ask yourself which of those look to be worse next season.

Florida has a much deeper pool of prospects and quality young players than the Flames. Surely a team with Haburdeau, Kulikov, Bjugstad, Howden, Gudbranson, and Markstrom has a brighter future. Now add MacKinnon to the mix. Colorado will add Jones to its stacked collection of talent, and can't possibly have worse coaching next season. Nashville may be treading water. But they also have a goalie who can win them a playoff spot by himself. Tampa has to find a goalie eventually.

On the declining side, Dallas might sink into the bottom five. The Oilers can be counted on to be terrible. Phoenix could easily drop if Tippet leaves.

But realistically, the Flames are a bottom-five team next season. This isn't the bottom yet, folks.

Everything you said here makes absolute sense, and you may very well end up being bang on, however in the end it doesn't amount to anything.

Before the start of the shortened season, everybody and their dog had Columbus penciled into a top 5 pick at least, yet they almost made the post season in a very tough Western Conference.

That's why the teams actually go out and play the games.

Not to mention, we don't have even close to a set roster for next season to even properly judge where we stand.

[FBI]

IMO the team is trending up since the firesale and since we've entered rebuilding mode.. We were clearly trending down before the trade deadline. Just personally I am feeling we are going the right direction now since the trade deadline (hence trending up from how pitiful it was before)..
Maybe we haven't hit rock bottom yet but I think we have.
Sorry for the optomism.