Flames to announce plans to announce arena plans in the... future...

[valo403]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Are there any posts in this thread that indicate what Valo43 thinks of McMahon stadium in comparison to US high school and college football stadiums?

Nope

[Nehkara]

I would imagine that the Flames' building is going to cost more than the Oilers' building ($604.5 million).

I'm thinking that this complex will cost at least $1 billion. Should be interesting when we finally hear about it. I'll definitely be interested to see what KK has to say on the 29th.

[transplant99]

Yeah i dont think there is ANY way to rationalize that McMahon doesnt need to be replaced....as there just is no room for renovations needed to bring it up to a reasonable standard.

Its fine for what it really is....an aging University stadium.

The Stamps have, for decades now, lost out on an immense source of revenue due to one reason...completely inadequate concessions and lack of suites.

Its time.

[troutman]

They play about 10 home games a year. How much revenue are they missing out on?

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by troutman

They play about 10 home games a year. How much revenue are they missing out on?

Whatever the amount is, if they're at the stage where they are making serious plans with a stadium included, then they've come to the conclusion that there's a revenue stream for them on some significant level. I doubt this idea is even floated if there isn't a good chunk of money to be made somewhere.

[JBR]

Originally Posted by troutman

They play about 10 home games a year. How much revenue are they missing out on?

It's not about the number of dates, it's about percentage. They're obviously making it work with 10 home dates already. If the Stamps can get a 10, 20 or 30% increase in revenue per season with a new facility, that would be significant.

I would like to use the concessions at McMahon during games, but don't because they are inconvenient. It's not because of high prices etc.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

I would imagine that the Flames' building is going to cost more than the Oilers' building ($604.5 million).

I'm thinking that this complex will cost at least $1 billion. Should be interesting when we finally hear about it. I'll definitely be interested to see what KK has to say on the 29th.

Not necessarily, when you consider that cost includes things like the community rink, the Wintergarden overpass and LRT link (those three items makes up about $120 million of the cost).

[valo403]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yeah i dont think there is ANY way to rationalize that McMahon doesnt need to be replaced....as there just is no room for renovations needed to bring it up to a reasonable standard.

Its fine for what it really is....an aging University stadium.

The Stamps have, for decades now, lost out on an immense source of revenue due to one reason...completely inadequate concessions and lack of suites.

Its time.

How is there no room? I haven't been by in a year or so, but I don't recall seeing anything filling up the massive spaces surrounding the stadium, which assumes that any outward expansion would even be necessary. Plenty can be done to renovate existing stadium structures, as is evidenced by the countless examples of it around the globe. The assessments here of what McMahon is, and what a renovation could do, are incredibly myopic.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by JBR

It's not about the number of dates, it's about percentage. They're obviously making it work with 10 home dates already. If the Stamps can get a 10, 20 or 30% increase in revenue per season with a new facility, that would be significant.

I would like to use the concessions at McMahon during games, but don't because they are inconvenient. It's not because of high prices etc.

I fail to see how inconvenient concessions equals a needed replacement. That's something that could be easily, and cheaply, addressed via renovation.

The only real argument I've seen here, and it is a strong one, for a new stadium is that not owning the stadium is an issue for ownership. If that's the case then yes, a new stadium makes complete sense. But if the need for a new stadium is driven by ownerships need to have more control over income it should without a doubt be 100% privately funded.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

Not necessarily, when you consider that cost includes things like the community rink, the Wintergarden overpass and LRT link (those three items makes up about $120 million of the cost).

I heard on the radio that the stadium will be 480 million and the surrounding area make up that 120 million. Is that not the case?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by valo403

I fail to see how inconvenient concessions equals a needed replacement. That's something that could be easily, and cheaply, addressed via renovation.

The only real argument I've seen here, and it is a strong one, for a new stadium is that not owning the stadium is an issue for ownership. If that's the case then yes, a new stadium makes complete sense. But if the need for a new stadium is driven by ownerships need to have more control over income it should without a doubt be 100% privately funded.

If the Flames built their own stadium for the Stamps how much does the UofC lose cash wise?

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

Not necessarily, when you consider that cost includes things like the community rink, the Wintergarden overpass and LRT link (those three items makes up about $120 million of the cost).

That is true but the Flames may end up needing similar infrastructure improvements.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yeah i dont think there is ANY way to rationalize that McMahon doesnt need to be replaced....as there just is no room for renovations needed to bring it up to a reasonable standard.

Its fine for what it really is....an aging University stadium.

The Stamps have, for decades now, lost out on an immense source of revenue due to one reason...completely inadequate concessions and lack of suites.

Its time.

I have no objections to the stadium being replaced. I only object to any significant amount of tax dollars being used to fund it.

Maybe someone can take a stab at running the economics. I hear the beautiful white elephant in Vancouver is for sale. It loses a fortune every year. Lets learn from BC's mistake.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by valo403

How is there no room? I haven't been by in a year or so, but I don't recall seeing anything filling up the massive spaces surrounding the stadium, which assumes that any outward expansion would even be necessary. Plenty can be done to renovate existing stadium structures, as is evidenced by the countless examples of it around the globe. The assessments here of what McMahon is, and what a renovation could do, are incredibly myopic.

Sometimes, it's just cheaper to tear down and re-build given the associated costs with cyclical renovation projects. Mechanical, structural, electrical, civil geotechnical and sustainability concepts are severely limited in maximizing efficiency when working with outdated infrastructure. New trends in bowl design, concourse design support facilities, associated amenities, sports technology, parking and traffic flow have rendered McMahon obsolete... and that was probably the case even thirty years ago.

There's so much that goes into the 'experience' now that when Calgary gets their new arena and/or stadium, citizens will understand what they've been missing all along.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Muta

There's so much that goes into the 'experience' now that when Calgary gets their new arena and/or stadium, the tiny, statistically insignificant percentage of Calgary's population who pay to attend profit generating events at these facilities will understand what they've been missing all along.

Fixed that for you.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I'm bringing 3rd world countries into it to show they have better stadiums than us. It's a valid argument, whether you agree with it or not is up to you. Then I bring up cities like London, Munich, Chicago, Toronto and show how awesome their stadiums are and we should be setting the bar that high.

I honestly don't see an issue with this... and yes, it's real.

Not really. 3rd world countries have better infrastructure because they just built it - its a developing country. They also tend to have better transportation networks and communication networks because they were just built as well.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Muta

Sometimes, it's just cheaper to tear down and re-build given the associated costs with cyclical renovation projects. Mechanical, structural, electrical, civil geotechnical and sustainability concepts are severely limited in maximizing efficiency when working with outdated infrastructure. New trends in bowl design, concourse design support facilities, associated amenities, sports technology, parking and traffic flow have rendered McMahon obsolete... and that was probably the case even thirty years ago.

There's so much that goes into the 'experience' now that when Calgary gets their new arena and/or stadium, citizens will understand what they've been missing all along.

Unless Mcmahon was built obsolete I find a lot of that hard to believe. There are stadiums with very similar designs that are in the midst of renovation projects, and they predate McMahon. Looking at the complaints here the biggest issue for most people appears to be concessions. That is not a basis for a new building IMO.

At the end of the day if private money wants to do it go for it, but this is not the NFL, there is no need for 'new trends in bowl design' and absolutely no way that a CFL franchise will generate the types of revenue needed to make public involvement worthwhile.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Fixed that for you.

Well that's surely negative thinking. I could make the same case on usage for an overpass in McKenzie Town that 98% of the population would never use at all.

With a new central stadium, we can better pursue international, large revenue-generating events like the Olympics, the Pan-Am Games, the FIFA World Cup and other international soccer events, the track and field championships, NFL Exhibition Games, and ultimately, putting an MLS franchise in the future.

Despite what you might think, being able to pursue events like this matters for a city of Calgary's size. The city massively benefits from such events; hotels, restuarants, bars, retail, advertising, transportation, etc. Tourism dollars can be a great, and very lucrative, source of revenue.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Muta

Well that's surely negative thinking. I could make the same case on usage for an overpass in McKenzie Town that 98% of the population would never use at all.

With a new central stadium, we can better pursue international, large revenue-generating events like the Olympics, the Pan-Am Games, the FIFA World Cup and other international soccer events, the track and field championships, NFL Exhibition Games, and ultimately, putting an MLS franchise in the future.

Despite what you might think, being able to pursue events like this matters for a city of Calgary's size. The city massively benefits from such events; hotels, restuarants, bars, retail, advertising, transportation, etc. Tourism dollars can be a great, and very lucrative, source of revenue.

Let's actually put forth a plan to pursue one of those (the Olympics is the only one that is realistic and would justify a new stadium) as the catalyst, rather than building something and hoping we get an event that makes it worthwhile.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by valo403

Unless Mcmahon was built obsolete I find a lot of that hard to believe. There are stadiums with very similar designs that are in the midst of renovation projects, and they predate McMahon. Looking at the complaints here the biggest issue for most people appears to be concessions. That is not a basis for a new building IMO.

At the end of the day if private money wants to do it go for it, but this is not the NFL, there is no need for 'new trends in bowl design' and absolutely no way that a CFL franchise will generate the types of revenue needed to make public involvement worthwhile.

That's cool. Agree to disagree, I guess. Would you be able to tell me the budgets on the facilities you've referred to that are being renovated?

You can't keep putting in $15M here and there and expect to get something like it's new. That's like pumping air into your tires of your aging car and saying the car is just fine... At some point you have to replace it because it's just getting old and worn out, and the costs to maintain it aren't worth it anymore.