Leafs forums are starting to look like this forum just before Phaneuf was dealt.
Some want his head; others defend him.
The biggest complaint is he doesn't learn from his mistakes, which sounds eerily familiar.
I still don't think he's awful - he's a poor man's number 1 D and would be an excellent number 2. I think people will be more forgiving once he's on a new contract and making less money.
he has the physical skills but to me he lacks hockey sense, will he be making less money on a new contract? he is after all the captain of the mighty leafs
I don't mind his posts. A bit of a Debbie Downer, yes, but some cynical skepticism could be healthy at times.
Skepticism is one thing. Defending the all-around play of a guy as clearly deficient at defence as Phaneuf crosses the line into being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. There's no other explanation.
I said it four years ago and I'll say it again - no team that has Phaneuf in its top pairing will have real success because the holes in his defensive game are bigger than what he brings to the table offensively. Unless he is given sheltered minutes, he is a net liability on the ice. Putting him out there late in the game with the Bruins surging was coaching folly of the highest order.
The forum is still like that, just a day ago it was back to being fleeced. Almost all season the usual Dion lovers were throwing that back out there.
Now one game happens and suddenly the tune changes. Fact it is that he is a extreme love/hate type player. He delivers the big hit or goal, and the tends to cover up the worts in his game which are many. Then a night like this happens, and we all see who he really is, a player making way too much for what he brings. In a cap world that can be very damaging for a team.
However, the guy is a decent player (I agree with 2nd pair D), he just has got by too far on his first two flames seasons. If he will swallow pride and sign for $2 mill less a season, he will be in that sweet spot for value, and probably get way less heat for his frequent mistakes.
No different with Reimer. A few days ago he was a hero and it appeared all the goaltending questions in Toronto were laid to rest. I listened to some of the game on the RSN radio broadcast and they were roasting him for his rebound control and pointing a lot of the blame in his direction.
Except that there isn't a convenient, single scapegoat for Toronto's choke.
yeah they all just stopped. The Bruins pulled the goalie twice and the Leafs never got the puck out of the zone, never even iced it and shot at the empty net. Center ice faceoff after the 4-3 goal and it went straight into the Leafs zone again. No blocked shot, no deflected passes, no bodychecks.. nothing. In fact Boston probably should have won it in regulation on that fat rebound Reimer gave up with 25ish seconds to go but they overskated it.
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Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
Skepticism is one thing. Defending the all-around play of a guy as clearly deficient at defence as Phaneuf crosses the line into being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. There's no other explanation.
I said it four years ago and I'll say it again - no team that has Phaneuf in its top pairing will have real success because the holes in his defensive game are bigger than what he brings to the table offensively. Unless he is given sheltered minutes, he is a net liability on the ice. Putting him out there late in the game with the Bruins surging was coaching folly of the highest order.
Who are the Leafs going to put out instead?
Gardiner has shown to have 0 concept of where to be or what to do in his own zone. Great offensive talent and great skater without or without the puck but not a good choice for last minute of a game in which you are leading. O'byrne is a statue and pylon. Liles is terrible and deserved to be in the PB for most of the year/play-offs. Franson, maybe, but slow as heck and no better defensively than Phaneuf. Gunnarsson about equal defensively with Phaneuf and likely the guy I have out there with him.
Putting him out there had nothing to do with poor coaching and at best could be blamed on poor roster make-up as Dion was at worst the second best guy on the Leafs blueline in his zone and for that situation.
The "holes" in his defensive game are always way overblown here maybe because some wanted him to be a perenial Norris trophy winner, maybe to help try and justify the crap trade we made with the Leafs but he is far from a net liability on the ice and a big reason why the less talented Leafs were able to outplay the Bruins and take the series to OT in game 7.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute 14
Jesus you guys. You still let Moon troll you so easily?
Oh yes because the great Resolute doesn't agree it has to be a troll post.
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Dion isn't as bad as a lot of people are making him out to be in my opinion.
As Moon said if people looked at Dion with expectations that weren't based on his first two years, his salary, or his captaincy of the Leafs, they'd conclude he's a pretty decent defenceman. Not great by any means, but a capable top-pairing guy.
He's better than anyone the Flames currently have on D - although I wouldn't trade Brodie for him as Brodie still has good upside while Phaneuf has plateaued.
Some might argue Gio's better, but I don't really get all the Gio love.
Dion's big issue is the salary. His next contract needs to be in the 4 - 5.5 range.
Dion isn't as bad as a lot of people are making him out to be in my opinion.
As Moon said if people looked at Dion with expectations that weren't based on his first two years, his salary, or his captaincy of the Leafs, they'd conclude he's a pretty decent defenceman. Not great by any means, but a capable top-pairing guy.
He's better than anyone the Flames currently have on D - although I wouldn't trade Brodie for him as Brodie still has good upside while Phaneuf has plateaued.
Some might argue Gio's better, but I don't really get all the Gio love.
Dion's big issue is the salary. His next contract needs to be in the 4 - 5.5 range.
Its the salary, and the fact that hes the Captain and the #1 defenceman.
If you're paid to be the #1 defenceman you're expected to be the #1 defenceman. Those are the expectations. He isnt living up to them.
And I think thats the question and the frustration. Has he plateaued? Why? Sometimes he shows that theres more to him, and then he shows that there may indeed be much, much less.
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Not only that, he simply is not a #1 defencemen. #1 defencemen are guys you should be able to trust in the dying minutes of a close or tie game. Offensively, he is a top pair guy. Defensively, not so much.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmike
Dion isn't as bad as a lot of people are making him out to be in my opinion.
As Moon said if people looked at Dion with expectations that weren't based on his first two years, his salary, or his captaincy of the Leafs, they'd conclude he's a pretty decent defenceman. Not great by any means, but a capable top-pairing guy.
He's better than anyone the Flames currently have on D - although I wouldn't trade Brodie for him as Brodie still has good upside while Phaneuf has plateaued.
Some might argue Gio's better, but I don't really get all the Gio love.
Dion's big issue is the salary. His next contract needs to be in the 4 - 5.5 range.
Dion is a defensive liability. On the tying goal he stood by and let Chara screen Reimer. He made no attempt to clear Chara from the front of the net.
Not only that, he simply is not a #1 defencemen. #1 defencemen are guys you should be able to trust in the dying minutes of a close or tie game. Offensively, he is a top pair guy. Defensively, not so much.
Exactly. But hes paid like one and expected to be one.
I think the issue now is that some people still believe that one day he will be a #1, but it doesnt seem likely.
__________________ The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
Not only that, he simply is not a #1 defencemen. #1 defencemen are guys you should be able to trust in the dying minutes of a close or tie game. Offensively, he is a top pair guy. Defensively, not so much.
I don't think he should be the number 1 guy either or at least not without a very steady partner.
But on the Leafs he is the number 1 by default.
Who on the Leafs defense should have been out there instead of him and who would have done any better a job?
Its not his fault the Leafs defense sucks this year.
Dion is a defensive liability. On the tying goal he stood by and let Chara screen Reimer. He made no attempt to clear Chara from the front of the net.
I sure every other d in the league would have just shuffled Chara out of the way no problem.
The fact that people are lamenting that he didn't move a 6'9 265 lbs. Chara from in front of the net when much smaller players routinely are able to screen just like Chara did without being moved is laughable.
