Toronto Raptors 2012/2013 season

[octothorp]

For what it's worth, Colangelo had a meeting yesterday with Lieweke, Tannenbaum, and other top brass. MLSE has a board meeting next Tuesday. It's been speculated that the brass will have a recommendation on whether or not to pick up the option on BC's contract by the time of the board meeting.

[St. Pats]

Originally Posted by octothorp

For what it's worth, Colangelo had a meeting yesterday with Lieweke, Tannenbaum, and other top brass. MLSE has a board meeting next Tuesday. It's been speculated that the brass will have a recommendation on whether or not to pick up the option on BC's contract by the time of the board meeting.

Sounds like it is all down to whether PJ wants to join the Raptors in some capacity. If he does then BC and Casey can pack their bags. If not then seems unlikely anything happens other than one more year of BC.

Whatever the offer is to PJ the new guy TL should up it till he says yes. Save us TL. Not another year of this bozo and his idiotic coach hires amongst his other sins.

[octothorp]

Sounds like the board is putting the decision on Colangelo's future on Lieweke, and he's taking his time, not rushing to judgement. So any decision on him is likely a week away. Although there were contradictory reports today, with the Toronto Sun quoting sources saying he's likely retained, and the National Post quoting sources saying he's likely gone. It does seem like a legit toss-up at this point.

I think that's the right process. They got the best guy they could find in Leiweke, so give him both the authority and time to make the right decision on Colangelo.

[moon]

I don't understand how there can be any decision to be made. The guy has been awful since coming to Toronto. Has just finished building a bad team, with little to no upside or flexibility after 4-5 years out of the play-offs and wasn't that good as a GM in his previous stop in Phoenix.

The Raptors might be in the worst situation in the NBA, and if not definitely bottom 5, and these guys are thinking about keeping the moron who was in charge of that on for more years?

Best case scenario the team that Colangelo has built over the past 5 seasons of no play-off basketball is competing for the 7-10 spot for the next 4 years. That is if everybody plays as well as they can and they have nothing go wrong. That means about 4-5 play-off games max a year, 0 shot at a title or even being close to a title and another rebuild needed around 2018. Awesome. Hope we can lock that stellar future up for another 4/5 years.

[St. Pats]

TL as much as said that he ain't coming back in reference to BC. To paraphrase he said I don't think BC is interested in a one year deal. Sounds like they are just giving BC the chance to gracefully get outta town. Can't wait to see the back of him. Take his boy Casey with him. I'd go right back to melting this team down. Next year is a great draft. Stockpile picks and get some real talent and go from there. Build around the 2014 draft and JV.

[octothorp]

Masai Ujiri is apparently at the top of the list for potential replacements, along with Kevin Pritchard and Troy Weaver. I'd love them to get Masai or Weaver, but I don't see either leaving pretty good situations that they have.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Colangelo stepping down as GM and President:

http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=423600

[octothorp]

Glad that it's over, but it's hard to get to excited until we hear who the next GM is. If they can actually get Ujiri back, I'll be excited; I really liked him and was a little disappointed that they lost him to Denver originally.

[bluejays]

I don't know what to think of Colangelo stepping down. He's in a results based business, so from that perspective he failed. 2 things I liked about him - A) very smart drafting and B) aside from Bargnani, he admits his big mistakes through getting rid of them in decent deals. I guess from a business perspective he would be an insult if they asked him to move from President to Head of Scouting, but we really can't argue about his logic when it comes to making the right pick. This year they don't have a 1st, but I'd still like the guy to be consulted when it comes to draft decisions.

[St. Pats]

Thank goodness they are rid of bozo number one. Clueless dufus has no idea how to assemble a basketball team and has them hamstringed with no wiggle room and a roster that isn't functional. New GM has a lot of challenges and has to deal with Casey the Clown as BC can't hire a decent coach either.

The slime manages to get paid for another year before they can dump him in a Burke like move.

At least it's finally started / MLSE are such dumb tits they probably find a way to screw it up but there is at least some faint hope now!

[octothorp]

So Colangelo is officially out as GM, but has had his contract picked up as president. Both the president and the GM will report directly to Lieweke. Lots of other things being discussed by Lieweke... new training facilities, all-star-game bid, possibly rebranding the team. Lieweke will officially start in early June, rather than early July.

[moon]

Thank god Colangelo is gone. Terrible at trades, awful FA decisions, awful drafter and most if all horrible at creating a big picture plan for the team. The only thing he seemed good at is selling MLSE on his garbage resume.

Probably already too much damage done from Colangelo for this team to contend anytime soon but hopefully the new guy can get rid of some of the awful contracts this team has for its mediocre players.

[Cheese]

Obviously not an amicable separation either:

Leiweke acknowledged that the situation is complex and will take sacrifce, especially from Colangelo who wanted to remain as the team's GM as well.
"Bryan is ticked off at me, this isn't his perfect world. But to his credit he accepts the role," he said.
If things don't work out as planned, Leiweke also said he will do whatever is necessary to rectify the situation.
"Bryan is going to have to live with this; I hope he can because if he can't I'm fairly certain we're not going to fire the Toronto Raptors."

[St. Pats]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Obviously not an amicable separation either:

Leiweke acknowledged that the situation is complex and will take sacrifce, especially from Colangelo who wanted to remain as the team's GM as well.
"Bryan is ticked off at me, this isn't his perfect world. But to his credit he accepts the role," he said.
If things don't work out as planned, Leiweke also said he will do whatever is necessary to rectify the situation.
"Bryan is going to have to live with this; I hope he can because if he can't I'm fairly certain we're not going to fire the Toronto Raptors."

It's really nothing more than just corporate double speak. They fire somebody by making them irrelevant. Kicking them upstairs etc. With some sort of 'see we even treat our crap employees well" so don't worry you can come and work with us someday. Everybody is happy and la la la.

I hope it means he has a year to find another job.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by moon

Thank god Colangelo is gone. Terrible at trades, awful FA decisions, awful drafter and most if all horrible at creating a big picture plan for the team. The only thing he seemed good at is selling MLSE on his garbage resume.

Probably already too much damage done from Colangelo for this team to contend anytime soon but hopefully the new guy can get rid of some of the awful contracts this team has for its mediocre players.

Moon, I don't say Colangelo did a great job, but to say he was terrible at trades and an awful drafter, is a bit disingenuous. I'd argue his drafting has been absolutely solid. Definitely better than average considering all these years where he drafted and how he did compared to his peers. Trades, he hasn't been robbed and especially with the smaller trades, did very good. I agree that there didn't seem to be a bigger picture plan, and that's perhaps in part why his larger trades and FA signings failed.

[moon]

Originally Posted by fleury

Moon, I don't say Colangelo did a great job, but to say he was terrible at trades and an awful drafter, is a bit disingenuous. I'd argue his drafting has been absolutely solid. Definitely better than average considering all these years where he drafted and how he did compared to his peers. Trades, he hasn't been robbed and especially with the smaller trades, did very good. I agree that there didn't seem to be a bigger picture plan, and that's perhaps in part why his larger trades and FA signings failed.

For trades, the Gay trade isn't a rip off but is such a horrible idea and terrible addition that perhaps that fits in the big picture rather than bad trade. Lowry didn't cost much but is another player the team doesn't need and a deal I would take back if we could. James Johnson was a useless addition. The O'Neal deal is awful. I guess I can't remember a single good deal that he made a bunch of decent value but awful players he acquired and some bad deals. Doesn't sound like a very good track record at all.

Drafting a lot has to do with their being not much available at his pick but still can't think of one good pick, maybe Valcunias but that seems doubtful so far.

Bargnani obviously a bad pick, 2007 no pick, 2008 losing Hibbert sucks, Derozan was a bad pick (although extending him even worse), Ed Davis meh pick at best with better players picked around him, Valcunias ? and Ross looks like a back-up at best. I don't see much in terms of good there and some poor picks. Again the sticking with Bargnani and Derozan makes this look even worse much like secondary factors make the deals look bad.

I just don't see many positives during the time he was here and certainly almost nothing going forward. The best player he brought in I guess is Rudy Gay who is a one dimensional gunner who is almost impossible to contend with and impossible with his contract. He built a boring, terrible team and leaves behind a cap nightmare, at best mediocre team with little to no shot at the title until someone can come in move out the mess Colangelo made.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by moon

For trades, the Gay trade isn't a rip off but is such a horrible idea and terrible addition that perhaps that fits in the big picture rather than bad trade. Lowry didn't cost much but is another player the team doesn't need and a deal I would take back if we could. James Johnson was a useless addition. The O'Neal deal is awful. I guess I can't remember a single good deal that he made a bunch of decent value but awful players he acquired and some bad deals. Doesn't sound like a very good track record at all.

Drafting a lot has to do with their being not much available at his pick but still can't think of one good pick, maybe Valcunias but that seems doubtful so far.

Bargnani obviously a bad pick, 2007 no pick, 2008 losing Hibbert sucks, Derozan was a bad pick (although extending him even worse), Ed Davis meh pick at best with better players picked around him, Valcunias ? and Ross looks like a back-up at best. I don't see much in terms of good there and some poor picks. Again the sticking with Bargnani and Derozan makes this look even worse much like secondary factors make the deals look bad.

I just don't see many positives during the time he was here and certainly almost nothing going forward. The best player he brought in I guess is Rudy Gay who is a one dimensional gunner who is almost impossible to contend with and impossible with his contract. He built a boring, terrible team and leaves behind a cap nightmare, at best mediocre team with little to no shot at the title until someone can come in move out the mess Colangelo made.

I guess we'll agree to disagree on his draft choices as I think they got solid players for where they drafted in these drafts. Bargnani wasn't a bad pick at the time with his upside potential. Who knew he wouldn't assert himself? In a perfect world if you had all the perfect information, you could easily redo the draft and select another player, but almost every player he's ever drafted has turned out to be solid (not steller, but solid) for where they were drafted compared to those who went after. To me that's not even arguable that he did solid in his drafting. I'd also argue he had a longer term plan in mind when it came to drafting (see Valanciunas and Ross).

It was more his other signings and some trades that showed no vision for the future, which in many ways were overpaying because they were a team outside the states aka: Landry Fields (yuk!).

I think in part the problem could be he had a vision for the future with various ideas, but there were quite a few bombs thrown in which came out of nowhere. The biggest to me was the Tyson Chandler deal that Cuban and MJ interfered with. That would have changed the franchise dramatically and that surely messed a few things up. There were also other deals that came close but didn't happen which would have been great for Toronto. Even Bosh's departure came somewhat of a surprise.

His signings which didn't work out he got good value in return for, which I don't mind (O'Neal, Turkoglu, etc). Those deals set them back though because they went from potential contenders to a year behind, but again, they weren't bad trades. As for the James Johnson deal, no biggie - getting into fights with coaches which was public knowledge, brought his value down. Besides, Colangelo got a few players from other teams for a second rounder. Unless you have a lottary pick, it almost means nothing in the NBA, so dealing outside that is probably not going to lose you much.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by moon

Drafting a lot has to do with their being not much available at his pick but still can't think of one good pick, maybe Valcunias but that seems doubtful so far.

Sorry to single out just one line from a post that makes some good points, but to suggest that Valanciunas is not a very good pick is just insane to me. Seriously, the guy just set a rookie record for best true shooting percentage amongst starting centres (a list in which #2-#5 belongs to Robinson, M. Gasol, Mourning, and O'Neal; and Valanciunas did it at a younger age than any of those guys), ended the season with a 11.5 pts, 7.5 rbs rookie of the month award. Look at the five guys drafted after him (Vesely, Biyombo, Knight, Walker, Fredette); I'd say he's already ahead of any of those guys despite playing one less season (except maybe Walker who has a green light to run up stats on tanking team), and certainly projects to be a far superior player to any of them. I wouldn't trade him for any player in that entire draft class except for Irving and possibly Leonard. (Could maybe make an argument for Faried or Klay Thompson, but I wouldn't do it.)

[moon]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Sorry to single out just one line from a post that makes some good points, but to suggest that Valanciunas is not a very good pick is just insane to me. Seriously, the guy just set a rookie record for best true shooting percentage amongst starting centres (a list in which #2-#5 belongs to Robinson, M. Gasol, Mourning, and O'Neal; and Valanciunas did it at a younger age than any of those guys), ended the season with a 11.5 pts, 7.5 rbs rookie of the month award. Look at the five guys drafted after him (Vesely, Biyombo, Knight, Walker, Fredette); I'd say he's already ahead of any of those guys despite playing one less season (except maybe Walker who has a green light to run up stats on tanking team), and certainly projects to be a far superior player to any of them. I wouldn't trade him for any player in that entire draft class except for Irving and possibly Leonard. (Could maybe make an argument for Faried or Klay Thompson, but I wouldn't do it.)

Ya doubtful was the wrong word. Meant there are still doubts about how he will turn out. I understand all the homers that cover the team keep talking about how great he will be but watching him play his hand selected minutes and how sheltered he is I don't see a ton of offensive instincts and some okay rebounding. I guess it is better that he does have good shooting numbers than not but they seem to be pretty few shots and he tends to pass up any tough shot so not surprising. Valcunias certainly does look like he may be the best draft pick and move that Colangenlo made during his time here I just want to see more than Doug "#1 Raptor fan" Smith telling me how great he will be.

[kmart]

Originally Posted by moon

For trades, the Gay trade isn't a rip off but is such a horrible idea and terrible addition that perhaps that fits in the big picture rather than bad trade. Lowry didn't cost much but is another player the team doesn't need and a deal I would take back if we could. James Johnson was a useless addition. The O'Neal deal is awful. I guess I can't remember a single good deal that he made a bunch of decent value but awful players he acquired and some bad deals. Doesn't sound like a very good track record at all.

Drafting a lot has to do with their being not much available at his pick but still can't think of one good pick, maybe Valcunias but that seems doubtful so far.

Bargnani obviously a bad pick, 2007 no pick, 2008 losing Hibbert sucks, Derozan was a bad pick (although extending him even worse), Ed Davis meh pick at best with better players picked around him, Valcunias ? and Ross looks like a back-up at best. I don't see much in terms of good there and some poor picks. Again the sticking with Bargnani and Derozan makes this look even worse much like secondary factors make the deals look bad.

I just don't see many positives during the time he was here and certainly almost nothing going forward. The best player he brought in I guess is Rudy Gay who is a one dimensional gunner who is almost impossible to contend with and impossible with his contract. He built a boring, terrible team and leaves behind a cap nightmare, at best mediocre team with little to no shot at the title until someone can come in move out the mess Colangelo made.

I don't blame Colangelo for the bad pick in 2006. I blame him for how he handled the situation. Bargs did not deserve a 5 year 50 million extension. The same goes for the Derozan pick. The fact that he couldn't wait till the end of the year to give him an extension is terrible. Unless Demar does some serious work on his game, his extension is unjustifiable for me.

Valancunias will be Colangelo's best pick. He can score, rebound, and defend.; IMO thats the player that Colangelo failed to acquire in his time as GM, a versatile 5 who can do many things.