Flames 2013 Draft Discussion

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

Erik Johnson is fine... but he's just one D

He's not that good though. I wouldn't call him a bust but much more was expected.

[cowtown75]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

How's Erik Johnson been playing since being traded to the Avs?

Has he been that bad that drafting a D is priority #1?

I would say he was an epic fail for a #1 overall. No goals, 4 assists and a -3 in 31 games this year. Pretty sad. St.Louis hands down won the trade sending Johnson to the Avs for Stewart and the better d-man in Shattenkirk. Johnson never came close to the impact player he was supposed to be.

[Phaneuf_Rules]

Originally Posted by nik-

I wonder if we take a risk on Valentin Zykov with one of our late picks. High scoring right winger, but I think a pretty decent bust potential.

I think zykov will go high. Would love to have him!

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by cowtown75

I would say he was an epic fail for a #1 overall. No goals, 4 assists and a -3 in 31 games this year. Pretty sad. St.Louis hands down won the trade sending Johnson to the Avs for Stewart and the better d-man in Shattenkirk. Johnson never came close to the impact player he was supposed to be.

Avs also got the 11th overall pick and Jay McClement who is a really good PK guy so you can't say it was that bad.

[cowtown75]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

Avs also got the 11th overall pick and Jay McClement who is a really good PK guy so you can't say it was that bad.

They both got conditional picks. And yes, it was that bad. They didn't even keep McClement, he was signed as a UFA by Toronto-

[ClubFlames]

I posted this in the Pens vs Sens series thread

This is for everyone who thinks picks from 25-30 are irrelevant.


2000 Draft:
#25 - Steve Ott
#28 - Justin Williams
#29 - Niklas Kronwall

2001 Draft:
No one significant but
#30 - Dave Steckel

2002 Draft:
#25 - Cam Ward

2003 Draft:
#26 - Brian Boyle
#28 - Corey Perry

2004 Draft:
#26 - Cory Schneider
#27 - Jeff Schultz
#28 - Mark Fistric
#29 - Mike Green

2005 Draft:
#25 - Andrew Cogliano
#28 - Matt Niskanen
#29 - Steve Downie

2006 Draft:
#25 - Patrik Berglund
#28 - Nick Foligno

2007 Draft:
#26 - David Perron
#27 - Brendan Smith

2008 Draft:
#26 - Tyler Ennis
#27 - John Carlson

2009 Draft:
#25 - Jordan Caron
#26 - Kyle Palmieri
#28 - Dylan Olsen
#30 - Simon Despres

2010 Draft:
#26 - Evgeny Kuznetsov
#28 - Charlie Coyle
#29 - Emerson Etem

2011 and 2012 drafts I will leave out since hardly any of them have made the pros yet.

As you can see with the late picks there's always a possibility that a good player can fall into our lap. There's a Hart Trophy winner in Corey Perry (deep draft I know) but also some very good players like Williams, Kronwall, Ward, Schneider, Green and so on.

Having a 25-30 pick doesn't make the pick irrelevant, we could still end up with a good player. Some posters here have been saying who cares about the Pittsburgh pick since the Flames will screw it up anways, thanks for having faith in the team you cheer for.

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

The gist of what I've read on Monahan is that he's a complete player. The consensus observations are that he is a 2-way centre that plays all 3 zones. Somewhere along the way people started interpreting '2-way' as 'defensive'. Then some posters panicked and started comparing him to various dud centre prospects from years' past.

In October this guy was projected to go top 3 & deemed an elite offensive prospect. Since then Drouin tore the Q a new A & Barkov cemented himself as a top prospect. His stock has not dropped; other guys have had excellent seasons. Monahan's team sucked. As it stands, he seems to be thought of as a #1 centre, but not a superstar/franchise talent.

The only worrying trait that props up is that his skating isn't at the same level as his other attributes. That doesn't seem to affect the abilities of Tavares. Like Tavares, Monahan seems to dictate the play & pops up in the right place at the right time to make clutch plays.

He is exactly the kind of player the Flames have been lacking.

Monahan never projected as an elite offensive player though. He's always been considered closer to a Staal or Toews prospect that has great intangibles, can play in all zones and situations but lacks some offensive dynamism that others around him in the draft appear to have. You'll probably get 80 points out of him best case scenario and 50ish worst in his prime.

To me he's a little better than Couturier was coming out, and in this draft I don't think that's better than what a Lindholm or a Nichuskin can give you.

[PlayfulGenius]

I'd rather build my team around a Toews, as opposed to a Malkin...not that I'd complain about either one.

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

I'd rather build my team around a Toews, as opposed to a Malkin...not that I'd complain about either one.

Even though I understand what you're saying, Lindholm vs Monahan is probably closer to arguing Jordan Staal vs Nick Backstrom. I think Backstrom wins that one and by a decent margin.

[PlayfulGenius]

Originally Posted by Dagger

Even though I understand what you're saying, Lindholm vs Monahan is probably closer to arguing Jordan Staal vs Nick Backstrom. I think Backstrom wins that one and by a decent margin.

Could be...and if so, I'd totally agree with you. I was making a general point, I have not seen either player enough to compare them to anyone else.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

I'd rather build my team around a Toews, as opposed to a Malkin...not that I'd complain about either one.

Don't you think that's a bit of a Russian bias? Malkin is far and away the superior player. Hart, Conn Smyth, Art Ross winner and while he's not Toews when it comes to defense, he's not Ovechkin either. If Toews was Russian and Malkin was Canadian, you wouldn't be able to find one person who would say Toews was a better player.

[PlayfulGenius]

...and I was referring to Nichuskin as the Malkin, I assume you're referring to Lindholm as the Backstrom...not that it really matters, as I haven't seen them play much anyway... Really only Nichuskin at the WJC

[PlayfulGenius]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

Don't you think that's a bit of a Russian bias? Malkin is far and away the superior player. Hart, Conn Smyth, Art Ross winner and while he's not Toews when it comes to defense, he's not Ovechkin either. If Toews was Russian and Malkin was Canadian, you wouldn't be able to find one person who would say Toews was a better player.

Hahaha, if you say so... As a kid, I was obsessed with Russian players... Take a look at my avatar

Anyway, my point was as a style of play... I simply took the best players that have been named as comparables and gave my preference. Would it help if I mentioned I'd rather build around a Datsyuk than a Stamkos??? Hahaha

[Roof-Daddy]

How about a deal like this:

To Isles:

C - Max Reinhart
Blues 2013 1st Round Pick (19th-24th Overall)
Penguins 2013 1st Round Pick (25th-30th Overall)

To Flames:

C - Brock Nelson
Islanders 2013 1st Round Pick (15th Overall)

[PlayfulGenius]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

How about a deal like this:

To Isles:

C - Max Reinhart
Blues 2013 1st Round Pick (19th-24th Overall)
Penguins 2013 1st Round Pick (25th-30th Overall)

To Flames:

C - Brock Nelson
Islanders 2013 1st Round Pick (15th Overall)

That looks like a realistic deal...is there any reason the NYI would prefer Reinhart over Nelson?

[Kaine]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

Don't you think that's a bit of a Russian bias? Malkin is far and away the superior player. Hart, Conn Smyth, Art Ross winner and while he's not Toews when it comes to defense, he's not Ovechkin either. If Toews was Russian and Malkin was Canadian, you wouldn't be able to find one person who would say Toews was a better player.

Not at all. First off both are superior talents, both are top players in the league. That said Towes is the type of player that is the very definition of leadership, sportsmanship and everything you want as face of a franchise. Malkin on the other hand seems to thrive being out of the "face of the franchise" spotlight. Sure he steps up when Crosby is injured and carries the team, but even so everyone still talks about Crosby and he can quietly go about his thing. Neither quality is "better" as both have strong points, but if I was personally building a team I would vastly prefer the type of character Towes brings to the table.

Then you have the actual skills. Towes is a very dangerous offensive player (not top offensive player mind you) while being perhaps the best 2 way player in the game right now, if not best top few. Malkin is arguably the most dangerous offensive player in the game or again, very close to it. Malkin's drawback to this higher offensive ceiling is the fact that he is a turnover machine, can be lazy at times in his own end and is not what most people would consider a 2 way player. You already know all of this so no sense going on listing every little detail.

Towes just screams "perfect leader" while still maintaining the ability to make him one of the leagues top players, he has some of those characteristics you just can't teach. Not to take anything away from Malkin as he is amazing in his own right, but Captain Serious would be my choice every time.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

That looks like a realistic deal...is there any reason the NYI would prefer Reinhart over Nelson?

Nelson is the bigger better player IMO, so no there would be no reason to pick Max over Brock straight up, but it isn't straight up.......they are getting an extra first round pick by moving down only 4-9 spots which is an over payment by Calgary, thus we get the better prospect in the swap of prospects.

...and for what it's worth (not sure if it's worth much at all really) they get Griffin's older brother in the fold.

[Dorkmaster]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

How about a deal like this:

To Isles:

C - Max Reinhart
Blues 2013 1st Round Pick (19th-24th Overall)
Penguins 2013 1st Round Pick (25th-30th Overall)

To Flames:

C - Brock Nelson
Islanders 2013 1st Round Pick (15th Overall)

Don't think would ever happen. They value Nelson over Reinhart probably by quite a bit and 15th for the two picks probably are around even value.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Dorkmaster

Don't think would ever happen.

Probably not, as with just about 100% of internet message board proposals. Just an idea to yak about.

Originally Posted by Dorkmaster

They value Nelson over Reinhart probably by quite a bit

I agree with that.

Originally Posted by Dorkmaster

and 15th for the two picks probably are around even value.

Disagree. Our two picks combined are worth more than their 15th over all, even if our two picks settle out at 23rd and 30th.

Just last year #14 was swapped for #21 and #42.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Disagree. Our two picks combined are worth more than their 15th over all, even if our two picks settle out at 23rd and 30th.

Just last year #14 was swapped for #21 and #42.

Different draft and it depends on who might drop to #15,if it's a player a team has ranked high a twitchy finger might pull the trigger. If a Domi or Shinkaruk dropped I would do it.