[News] Hart finalists: Crosby, Ovechkin, Tavares

[Captain_Obvious]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Looks to me like he had a pretty identical season stats wise. About a point per game.

They were 4-5-1 until Visnovsky joined the team. Maybe they should give the trophy to him. Guy led the team in +/-. Tavares was -2.

What about Nabokov playing 40 games out of 48 and putting up at least average numbers? Last season they had Montoya play almost 30 games and he was awful.

Did Tavares help improve their PK?

Did he improve their scoring depth ?

I think the improvement in the supporting cast helped the Islanders make the playoffs more then anything Tavares did. It makes for a better story though if Tavares gets all the credit.

I think Crosby should win, but the irony of an Oiler fan crying about someone receiving credit that outweighs their accomplishments couldn't be more ironic.

[puckluck2]

There is no way someone other than Tavares should win.

Crosby was out and the Pens were still putting up insane win streaks.

Ovechkin was not the most important player on his team, and even if he was, it was not on the same level that Tavares was to his team.

I am actually shocked that Crosby got nominated. No offence to Crosby as he is a class act and a great player, but the Pens would still be good without him.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

There is no way someone other than Tavares should win.

Crosby was out and the Pens were still putting up insane win streaks.

Ovechkin was not the most important player on his team, and even if he was, it was not on the same level that Tavares was to his team.

I am actually shocked that Crosby got nominated. No offence to Crosby as he is a class act and a great player, but the Pens would still be good without him.

How on earth does that make him less valuable?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

There is no way someone other than Tavares should win.

Crosby was out and the Pens were still putting up insane win streaks.

Ovechkin was not the most important player on his team, and even if he was, it was not on the same level that Tavares was to his team.

I am actually shocked that Crosby got nominated. No offence to Crosby as he is a class act and a great player, but the Pens would still be good without him.

Yeah, despite it being the trophy for Most Valuable Player to his team it's given to the guy voters think had the best season that year. The whole MVP to his team thing rarely if ever actually comes into play.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

How on earth does that make him less valuable?

Because he's not the most valuable to his team in my opinion.

The Islanders without Tavares would be a basement team.


The Hart Memorial Trophy, originally known as the Hart Trophy, the "oldest and most prestigious individual award in hockey", is awarded annually to the"player judged most valuable to his team" in the National Hockey League (NHL).[1] The Hart Memorial Trophy has been awarded 87 times to 54 different players since its beginnings in 1924. Each year, members of the Professional Hockey Writers' Association vote to determine the player who was the most valuable to his team during the regular season.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Yeah, despite it being the trophy for Most Valuable Player to his team it's given to the guy voters think had the best season that year. The whole MVP to his team thing rarely if ever actually comes into play.

Good point, sad, but a good one.

No way Tavares should not win.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Because he's not the most valuable to his team in my opinion.

The Islanders without Tavares would be a basement team.

Do you think if the players swapped teams Crosby wouldn't be able to do exactly what Tavaras did this season?

Honestly question.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Do you think if the players swapped teams Crosby wouldn't be able to do exactly what Tavaras did this season?

Honestly question.

Of course. Nobody is even close to as good as Crosby. Best player in the game, but like you said that's not what the award is meant to be.

[Captain_Obvious]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Of course. Nobody is even close to as good as Crosby. Best player in the game, but like you said that's not what the award is meant to be.

You seem to be inferring that because the Pens are a stacked team it somehow makes Crosby less valuable and I don't see that as being the point of that interpretation of the rule.

Ask the Pens how valuable his 1.5 points per game is in the grand scheme of things.

Either way, Crosby's 1.5 points per game to Tavares .98 make it a very subjective race. No need to be speaking in absolutes. There is a lot of room for debate on this one.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Of course. Nobody is even close to as good as Crosby. Best player in the game, but like you said that's not what the award is meant to be.

Not true, IMO.

Some people interpret the 'to his team' too singularly.

That does not necessarily mean that his team would be bad without him.

Most valuable to his team can mean a lot of things: Crosby is a better player than Burrows, therefore Crosby is more valuable to his team than Burrows is to his.

See the difference in meaning? Everybody in this thread agrees that Crosby is a better player than Tavares, therefore Crosby is more valuable to his team (on that metric).

It's just a different way to interpret the phrase. And since the award goes to the player that had the best season every year, it appears that that is how the voters interpret it.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

When you see a clip of Ovi like we did recently just coasting on the backcheck without a care in the world it's tough to think he could be the MVP this season. If Sid doesn't miss as much time this isn't even a debate, he wins in a landslide. For me it's Crosby vs. Tavares, and it's a toss up. I think Sid takes it, but I'd like to see Tavares win.

His team isn't even close to the playoffs if he doesn't turn into a beast this year. He dragged one of the worst teams in the league into the playoffs.

That play was embarrassing, but it doesn't override his season.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Captain_Obvious

I think Crosby should win, but the irony of an Oiler fan crying about someone receiving credit that outweighs their accomplishments couldn't be more ironic.

Nothing about the Oilers gets unconditional praise like Tavares has gotten.

You just perceive it that way.

[Captain_Obvious]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Nothing about the Oilers gets unconditional praise like Tavares has gotten.

You just perceive it that way.

Yea, clearly I'm the deluded one here.

You might want to try turning on the TV some time in the lead up to / early stages of the season.

Or go back and read the flux of posts by you guys for the fist 25% of every season for the last five years.

All of that aside, you seem on a plight to discredit Tavares for some reason, and it's really odd. That's before even mentioning the irony / hypocrisy.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by nik-

His team isn't even close to the playoffs if he doesn't turn into a beast this year. He dragged one of the worst teams in the league into the playoffs.

That play was embarrassing, but it doesn't override his season.

His season was pretty good, but he's very poor defensively and was MIA for the first 1/4 of the season. IMO, that's not a Hart trophy winner, but that's just my opinion.

I don't think I'd be really shocked if any of the 3 won. No real clear cut winner this season.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

His season was pretty good, but he's very poor defensively and was MIA for the first 1/4 of the season. IMO, that's not a Hart trophy winner, but that's just my opinion.

I don't think I'd be really shocked if any of the 3 won. No real clear cut winner this season.

Well it really should be between Tavares and Ovechkin. If either of those guys won it, I'd be ok with it.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Captain_Obvious

All of that aside, you seem on a plight to discredit Tavares for some reason, and it's really odd. That's before even mentioning the irony / hypocrisy.

The reason is that Tavares' nomination is built on a good story line rather then Hart trophy worthy results. Just trying to spread some truth.

A guy that's arguably not even a top ten forward this season doesn't deserve to win a trophy for being the most valuable player.

The guy wasn't even a plus player.

He was getting the Sedin's treatment of 60% offensive zone draws, avoiding the toughest match ups, and finished 17th in scoring.

Great season? Sure. Best season? Not close.

In the meantime everyone acts like the rest of the Islanders team is AHL calibre. What about the Frans Nielson line that went head to head with guys like Crosby all year and had pretty decent results?

In comparison a guy like Getzlaf outscored his closest teammate by 13 points (Tavares-3 point spread), played the toughest comp on his team, with some of the worst zone starts and took his team that was comparable to the Islanders last season to second place in the conference. I didn't hear anyone even mention him being in the race.

Lots of guys had better seasons. Tavares just has hype.

[trackercowe]

I don't think the Islanders do any better with Crosby over Tavares simply because he missed 1/4 of the season. Without that one player the Islanders would be one of the worst teams in the league and probably go 3-8-1 over the final stretch and miss the playoffs. Not to say one player is the reason the Islanders made the playoffs, but without him they are a bottom three team in the East.

Also regarding Oil Stain's comparison of Nash to Tavares, while I do agree that Nash has always been one of the most overrated players in the league, you can't necessarily compare the two. Statistics wise they might put up similar numbers, but Nash only got Columbus to the playoffs once in 2008-09. And he wasn't their leader that year that was because of Steve Mason's spectacular rookie year, where he dragged the Blue Jackets to their one and only playoff berth. That year Mason finished 4th in Hart Trophy voting. If Nash had ever led Columbus to the playoffs in his time there similarly as Tavares did then he probably would have received Hart Trophy consideration as well.

Oh and really their stats don't necessarily match up either. If you pro-rate Tavares numbers over a full season he would have put up 49 goals this year; Rick Nash's career high is 41. Then in points Tavares pro-rates to 81 this year, while Nash's career high was 79 that he put up the one year Cbus did make the playoffs, and he has never scored more than 70 points besides that.

So while it's too early to put Tavares in the same company with Crosby and Ovechkin, based on the standards of how they decide on selecting the Hart Trophy winner he’s the obvious choice imo.

[Captain_Obvious]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Lots of guys had better seasons. Tavares just has hype.

Very simple question that requires a very short simple answer: How many Islanders games did you watch this season?

[trackercowe]

Originally Posted by Captain_Obvious

Very simple question that requires a very short simple answer: How many Islanders games did you watch this season?

That's a good point; they're never on HNIC, nor did they play Edmonton or Calgary this year. I also doubt the Islanders were ever on any nationally televised games on TSN or CBC. So unless you have Center Ice and make a point of watching the Islanders of all your options then really you have no way to tell what sort of player Tavares actually was this year.

[vilzeh]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

J.T. Lead the Islanders to the playoffs when everyone saw them as a lottery team once again. But i'm pretty sure that Crosby will win it, especially if he wins the cup.

Nothing to do with playoffs performance.......

Anyhow, I'm guessing Tavares, should go to Crosby, why? Well, because Crosby is the MVP of the league, every year.