What could Calgary do to move up in the draft rankings to acquire Nathan MacKinnon?

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

I've mentioned this in another thread...

Everyone is talking about this draft being really deep, but there doesn't appear to be any Generational-type player... Like Crosby, Ovechkin or even Stamkos.

So, it would seem to be the ideal way to leverage this draft would be to have multiple picks. The Flames are positioned as well as any team for this draft... In fact, one would have to argue they're positioned the best of all 30 teams.

If the Flames traded all picks for #2, it no longer becomes the Flames advantage how deep this draft is... I say use roster players to move picks up the draft, but make sure to remain with at least 3 picks in the first round.

I highly doubt teams are looking at our "meh" players in deals that involve anything to do with first round picks. If teams are looking at our players, it's for 3-4th round picks.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by T@T

I would do any player on the roster with our 6th and last 1st rounder not named Sven, MacKinnon will be a very special player.

I would trade 6th,late 1st and brodie in a second for MacKinnon, Flames may never get another chance for this type of player.

I agree MacKinnon is going to be a stud. I would go as high as offering 6th pick, Pitt pick and Johnny Hockey. I had a proposal yesterday of 6th and Johnny Hockey. I have added the Pitt pick because i don't think there is a chance in hell that Feaster will use all the picks to draft players. I think he will use one of the latter picks to trade for a NHL player. I have no faith on Feasters trades, especially with his assesment with young players involved ( Byron, Butler and thinking ROR was an ellite center). If he's going to screw up a trade for a young NHL player, he might as well throw the pick in the deal to move up. Flames would still have the other latter pick. Granted i doubt Florida would make the deal.

[PlayfulGenius]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I highly doubt teams are looking at our "meh" players in deals that involve anything to do with first round picks. If teams are looking at our players, it's for 3-4th round picks.

That's fine... Keep the 3 picks .... They're sittin' pretty.

Besides, what I meant was use roster players to move up with picks ... Like from 22nd pick to 17th or something like that.

[nik-]

I like lots of picks too, but I hope the Flames are looking to package the late two to move mid round. 6 + 15/16/17 is nicer than 6+21+27.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by nik-

I like lots of picks too, but I hope the Flames are looking to package the late two to move mid round. 6 + 15/16/17 is nicer than 6+21+27.

Not neccassarily.

If the talent pool is relatively even from 15-30, then two extra picks from that pool is better than one. If there was a big drop off after 20 or so, then you would be correct.

However, by most accounts this years draft doesn't seem to have that drop off, so we might be better off keeping the three picks.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by nik-

I like lots of picks too, but I hope the Flames are looking to package the late two to move mid round. 6 + 15/16/17 is nicer than 6+21+27.

I would hope with the latter 2 picks they could move up better than 15th. Flames traded down 5 spots last year and got an extra 2nd out of it. Better draft this year, but i would hope they could drop down to 11-13th. If a player that they had rated in the top 10 falls, they should do it.

[Dx54]

To FLA: 6th, and the other two 1st round picks +Brodie +Johnny Hockey
To CGY: 2nd pick, Huberdeau

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by mustache ride

Well if you eliminate anyone with more success than Sven, I guess he is the best prospect in the league then. If Brodin doesnt count then no one else does really either. The difference between them is 20 games. I don't mean that to be as rude as it sounds but your being unreasonable with your criteria.

One player established himself as a full time nhler the other will still be a rookie next year, nothing arbitrary about it

[Badgers Nose]

I would do glenx, gio and cammi and a good prospect. Lol

Two good value contracts, a proven scorer and and a kid.

Fill spots with a couple of short term rfas.

Keep all the picks!

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

I would do glenx, gio and cammi and a good prospect. Lol

Two good value contracts, a proven scorer and and a kid.

Fill spots with a couple of short term rfas.

Keep all the picks!

So basically the Edmonton plan with no draft picks going forward.

(the draft picks are lost when the RFA is signed)

short term RFAs is an oxymoron. Why would a RFA who does not accept his qualifying offer sign a offer sheet on a short term contract???


At least Edmontom's top line of Hall, Eberle and RNH would not be the physically weakest top line .... with Mackinnon, Baertschi and Gaudreau being the smallest #1 line of the modern era.

[OutOfTheCube]

The way to look at it is, if Calgary had the second overall pick and a guaranteed shot at Mackinnon, what would we be happy to take (from say, Florida) to move down to 6th instead?

This takes no less than 6th overall and a TOP prospect. Not Brodie, not Gaudreau (too many question marks). Our pick + Baertschi probably does it. Basically two solid NHL prospects for an elite, blue-chip, star potential prospect. Would you be satisfied with anything else if it was the Flames trading away Mackinnon?

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

The way to look at it is, if Calgary had the second overall pick and a guaranteed shot at Mackinnon, what would we be happy to take (from say, Florida) to move down to 6th instead?

This takes no less than 6th overall and a TOP prospect. Not Brodie, not Gaudreau (too many question marks). Our pick + Baertschi probably does it. Basically two solid NHL prospects for an elite, blue-chip, star potential prospect. Would you be satisfied with anything else if it was the Flames trading away Mackinnon?

You realize that Brodie is a defenseman and is 2 years 4 months older than Baertschi?

His progress has been phenomenal. He played better after Bouwmeester was dealt... tougher minutes.... His playing #1 minutes on the Flames winning streak was basically the reason the Flames did not finish 26th and be getting either Drouin or Mackinnon.


Brodie is a bit undersized but his play justifies getting some tougher players to fit in around him...... The Flames defense going into 2013-14 with Brodie-Gio and Wideman is in better shape than last year with Bouwmeester-Gio-Wideman.

I would not give up either but right now Baertschi has to show that he is as good as Brodie.


Brodie and Baertschi can be our Kane and Keith. Now we have to find a Toews and Seabrook

[PlayfulGenius]

Brodie is not Duncan Keith...yikes.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

Brodie is not Duncan Keith...yikes.

Not right now he's not as good as Keith, but is their any reason he can't develop into a Duncan Keith?

Keith didn't really "break out" and develop into a Norris caliber defenseman until he was 25/26.

[PlayfulGenius]

Breen could develop into a Chara, too... But I wouldn't put any money on it, nor start referring to him as 'our Chara'.

Personally, I think Keith is overrated anyway, he hasn't been as dominant a player since his injury after their Cup run.

I do think there's a chance Brodie develops into a player of Keith's calibre though, to answer your question.

[nik-]

I'm afraid to put projections on Brodie anymore. I had him at a 3/4 as his ceiling max, and he owned that within about 30 games as a 22 year old. So I don't know what he's going to be. I don't want to make ridiculous predictions, but I kind of top him out now as a potential solid top pairing D.

Now ... if his point production starts coming around ... yikes.

[Stanley]

I suppose one should look at whatever options are available to move up and get a potential franchise player like Mackinnon, but I'm still of the opinion that the 6th + 2 later firsts and still holding on to our current prospects and developing young players (Brodie, Sven) is a much better strategy than having to potentially trade away key pieces (and/or draft picks) just to get 1 highly touted guy, especially in a deep draft.

I wanna see this organization keep the current picks they have, draft smart and have 3 first round picks that will compliment the Svens, Brodies, Backlunds, Gaudreaus, etc.... I wanna see them fill the holes necessary with these picks and build a good team.

One of Lindholm, Monahan or Barkov could be available to us at 6th, which would go a long way to help rebuild the Flames.

I'm no expert on the players in the draft but I do see some Toews potential in this Monahan kid...not to mention the star potential in Lindholm...but I have a feeling Linholm won't be around anymore at 6th. IMO we may be looking at Monahan as the most likely guy at 6th but who knows, anything could happen between 4th and 7th...

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

Breen could develop into a Chara, too... But I wouldn't put any money on it, nor start referring to him as 'our Chara'.

Haha, well the difference there would be that Brodie has actually played over 100 games at the NHL level and has continued to progress.....and he's the same age as Breen. Also, if you compare Brodie's production to Keiths production to from the time they turned pro to the age of 23, it's very similar so far. Bringing up a silly Breen/Chara comparison in this conversation serves no purpose.

I'm not saying Brodie will win a Norris, or ever put up the offensive numbers Keith has, but it certainly isn't out of the question.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Sure but Brodin isn't a prospect anymore is he. I take Sven over those other 92s easily, it's about more than stats it's about skill evaluation and projection. Murray is valid but I've never been a fan, I think the leafs got the best dman from the draft

Brodin is still pretty unproven. He's only played 20 more games then Baertschi. I guess it depends on what your own personal cut off is in terms of games played. They were both taken in the same draft.

Six months ago probably 95% of hockey fans would have picked Baerstchi over Brodin, but now Brodin has surged ahead.

In terms of projection. Well its a hard thing to predict. I think basing career projections on current play is just as fair as anything else. Not sure I would say Sven is easily ahead of the other 92's.

If Oleksiak becomes a 6'7" shutdown D-man that plays 25 minutes a night and chips in a bit of offence, then he is worth then Baertschi if he ends up being a Eberle/Pierre-Marc Bouchard level player.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

One player established himself as a full time nhler the other will still be a rookie next year, nothing arbitrary about it

Is that Brodin's fault that Sven is injury prone and was likely going to be sent down anyway as Hartley obviously didn't think he was ready? The fact that Brodin has established himself faster than Sven to me means right now he's a better player and younger. I don't want to beat down Sven here but the fact is that Hartley wasn't even playing him until the end of the season when the team became the Heat. I don't see that changing much next season as long as the games count he's going to roll with veteran player he has confidence in. I see this season as a bit disappointing quite frankly as the kid simply didn't look good until garbage time and even then he wasn't noticeable for stretches. He's likely going to be a Backlund type project that will need a lot of tough love.